Features?

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
It's certainly not a requirement that forward guns be fixed, and what you're describing is essentially mounting them on a turret. You don't have to look any further than the Sorthak to find an example of this. All of its guns are mounted on various turrets around the ship. It's probably an impractical design to independently or manually target on a regular basis though. The real extent I see it going is having the guns autotrack to your locked component.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
For game balance I think that autotracking should be an upgrade rather than automatically available for free with all guns. I think it should either be fairly expensive (several thousand credits per gun if we are using Privateer-like price scales), or else only available after completing a certain plot mission or side mission.
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Ijuin said:
For game balance I think that autotracking should be an upgrade rather than automatically available for free with all guns. I think it should either be fairly expensive (several thousand credits per gun if we are using Privateer-like price scales), or else only available after completing a certain plot mission or side mission.
How about a combination of both? You do the mission so you can get someone to make the gun autotracking.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
That sounds good--like how in P2 you had to do a cinematic side mission in order to be allowed to buy the Kraven IV laser gun. What we want to avoid here is having the player get autotracking guns really early in the game (like when you are still flying the Hunchback). Maybe autotracking requires a military-grade AI that you can only get after completing the required mission?
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Ijuin said:
That sounds good--like how in P2 you had to do a cinematic side mission in order to be allowed to buy the Kraven IV laser gun. What we want to avoid here is having the player get autotracking guns really early in the game (like when you are still flying the Hunchback). Maybe autotracking requires a military-grade AI that you can only get after completing the required mission?
Perhaps this could be a pirate mission to aqcuire the AI.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
We have no plans of adding autotracking to the main forward-firing weapons. There's really no point to it and it goes against the basic philosophy we're working towards here. These ships should not fly of fight in the same ways. A Camel will not be able to fight like a Phalanx. If you get caught in a sit 'n spin battle with a fighter, then you're dead. Adding autotracking doesn't and shouldn't help you get away from this fact. You, as the player, have to accept that if you fly a Hydra or a Camel you will not be able to dogfight like you would if you were flying a Phalanx. You shouldn't be doing any sort of hard dogfighting in the Camels case. You should be running away and letting your turret - which is autotracking - deal withthe bad guys. The Hydra is a Gunship - it's designed to project fire in all directions...so staying on another fighters tail is not the best option. The two side turrets have total convergence to the rear. if anything comes up on you from behind, they'll get a quadruple-shot of neutron fire. See? Now you're fighting like a gunship.
If you're in a slower, heavier craft it will have turrets. Use them - that's what they're for. I'm personally pretty dead-set against Auto-tracking at any level. It takes the game out of the players hands, and removes any real skill requirement. It turns it into an arcade shooter. This is the main reason I can't stand the Excalibur when I play through WC3 nowadays (back in the dark ages, I loved it). Just make sure you've got the enemy on screen, and pull the trigger. Bam. They're dead. Fun for the first five minutes of watching the pretty explosions, but after that? Not really. The skill and sense of accomplishment is gone - taken away by the simple fact that you've not actually worked for those kills. You pulled a trigger. Whoopdee-doo. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist. Auto-tracking feels like cheating.
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Howard Day said:
We have no plans of adding autotracking to the main forward-firing weapons. There's really no point to it and it goes against the basic philosophy we're working towards here. These ships should not fly of fight in the same ways. A Camel will not be able to fight like a Phalanx. If you get caught in a sit 'n spin battle with a fighter, then you're dead. Adding autotracking doesn't and shouldn't help you get away from this fact. You, as the player, have to accept that if you fly a Hydra or a Camel you will not be able to dogfight like you would if you were flying a Phalanx. You shouldn't be doing any sort of hard dogfighting in the Camels case. You should be running away and letting your turret - which is autotracking - deal withthe bad guys. The Hydra is a Gunship - it's designed to project fire in all directions...so staying on another fighters tail is not the best option. The two side turrets have total convergence to the rear. if anything comes up on you from behind, they'll get a quadruple-shot of neutron fire. See? Now you're fighting like a gunship.
If you're in a slower, heavier craft it will have turrets. Use them - that's what they're for. I'm personally pretty dead-set against Auto-tracking at any level. It takes the game out of the players hands, and removes any real skill requirement. It turns it into an arcade shooter. This is the main reason I can't stand the Excalibur when I play through WC3 nowadays (back in the dark ages, I loved it). Just make sure you've got the enemy on screen, and pull the trigger. Bam. They're dead. Fun for the first five minutes of watching the pretty explosions, but after that? Not really. The skill and sense of accomplishment is gone - taken away by the simple fact that you've not actually worked for those kills. You pulled a trigger. Whoopdee-doo. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist. Auto-tracking feels like cheating.
Nice speech there, but are you against slight amounts of auto-tracking(such as just a little bit around the crosshair)?
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
The only way I'd seriously consider it is if we did some sort of difficulty level setup, and the slight amount of auto-tracking was on the very easiest. Then it would make sense, I suppose - it really wouldn't at any other difficulty level.
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
My only suggestion is that you make your guns with large "projectiles" (wrong word I know but it was all that came to mind) so that you have a small amount of grace room to hit an enemy fighter with them. This was the way it was in the original WC (1&2) and due to it, auto tracking wasn't really needed. (ITTS was nice though). Another thing, (let me put out all my begging here) make the combat slower and more tactical like it was in the original Wing Commander games, not spinning around on a dime (ala Vampire in WCP) and unleashing missile after missile.
 

gevatter Lars

Vice Admiral
I think you don't need to fear about you firing to many missiles...because you have to pay for each of them ^_^
For the turning on a dime...I realy disliked the Vampire exactly for that.
 

Magnum

Rear Admiral
Maj.Striker said:
My only suggestion is that you make your guns with large "projectiles" (wrong word I know but it was all that came to mind) so that you have a small amount of grace room to hit an enemy fighter with them. This was the way it was in the original WC (1&2) and due to it, auto tracking wasn't really needed. (ITTS was nice though). Another thing, (let me put out all my begging here) make the combat slower and more tactical like it was in the original Wing Commander games, not spinning around on a dime (ala Vampire in WCP) and unleashing missile after missile.
Based on what we've seen and heard so far, doesn't it look like these things are already the case?
 

Ijuin

Admiral
"Turning on a dime" probably won't be happening, but it looks like the Phalanx, the most agile player ship, will have speed and agility comparable to the WC1 Rapier II (except for having slower afterburner speed). As for missiles, IIRC the Hunchback will carry two, the Tarsus four, the Camel and Phalanx six, and the Hydra eight. This is more like the pre-Prophecy missile loadouts.
 

Lt.Death100

Spaceman
Ijuin said:
"Turning on a dime" probably won't be happening, but it looks like the Phalanx, the most agile player ship, will have speed and agility comparable to the WC1 Rapier II (except for having slower afterburner speed). As for missiles, IIRC the Hunchback will carry two, the Tarsus four, the Camel and Phalanx six, and the Hydra eight. This is more like the pre-Prophecy missile loadouts.
It's the Rapier I but yeah the loadouts should be alot smaller than the fanboyish dream that was the Vampire.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Lt.Death100 said:
It's the Rapier I but yeah the loadouts should be alot smaller than the fanboyish dream that was the Vampire.

That was *any* Prophecy ship.:)
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Lt.Death100 said:
It's the Rapier I but yeah the loadouts should be alot smaller than the fanboyish dream that was the Vampire.

The Rapier we flew in the WC1 game was the Rapier II.
 

Shotglass

Spaceman
So, what has been decided on the ability to purchase and pilot large transport ships (ie old-school Drayman class) I would understand if that was decided against, but it would be cool to see shipping become viable on a massive scale. On that same vein, has there been any consideration given to commanding fleets/dispersed assets (ships that can go other places and do things for you) giving the player the capacity to raise him/herself up to a Roman Lynchesque capacity? Doubt it, but lets discuss anyway?
Thanks
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Lt.Death100 said:
It's the Rapier I but yeah the loadouts should be alot smaller than the fanboyish dream that was the Vampire.

As Chris pointed out, it's the Rapier II. Anyway, the loadout of the Vampire is not fanboyish, the missiles on WCP are just less effective than they are on WCIV. It's really hard to get one hit, one kill. I think it's just a matter of game balance. Even if WCP can be said to be relatively easy for an experienced player on the hardest difficulty setting, it's not because of the missile loadout.
 
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