Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The only Wing Commander games where your character is actually a Wing Commander are Wing Commander 3 and a small portion of Wing Commander 4.
Elite Carrier Wing
- Thread starter Ierocis
- Start date
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
No.. I said it's not a wing in today's system... in WC, they call a two-fighter element a wing. But they also call the entire standard complement of a carrier a wing (which is correct, per todays terms).
overmortal
Bearded Person
I was under the impression that Diamondback and Black Widow were squadrons, not 'wings'. I refer you to Maniac's quote when Casey sits at his favorite table.
"This table is for the big boys; Black Widow squadron."
"This table is for the big boys; Black Widow squadron."
overmortal
Bearded Person
Eh, I kinda figured that, for the alpha, beta, and charlie "wings", those were actually what would currently be called "elements"
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Delance said:
No, there's nothing like that.
The Diamondbacks, Black Widows and Wolfpack are fighter wings in the traditional sense. Each one is a self contained combat unit that could be assigned to another carrier at any time. Each one is made up of several smaller squadrons, probably divided by figther class.
WC mixes up its terminology so much its not funny... so because i'm quite bored at the moment i'll kill some time explaining things...
I'll start with how things are in most modern western militaries:
Element - 2 fighters, a Leader and a Wingman.
The basic unit of fighter combat, modern air forces ALWAYS fly in pairs whenever possable simply because the buddy system has proven to be the most effective in combat (a lesson which ConFed has apparently forgotten given how often they send fighters out alone or in groups of 3).
Flight - A small number (usually 2-6, 4 being most common) of fighters from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission.
Squadron - The smallest permanent unit, a squadron is a dozen or so fighters of the same type and their pilots & ground crews. Squadrons are largely an administrative unit, they rarely, if ever, fight together as a unit in modern battles.
Air Wing - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. A wing is a purely administrative unit, it never actualy flys together as a single unit in combat.
Now WC being 'world war II in space' i'll list the differences from modern terminology. WW2 air forces used generally the same system as modern ones use, but they had different terms.
Wing - A small number of fighters from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission. Wing sizes were more variable in WW2 and wings of 3 or 5 were common as were wings of 4 or 6.
Squadron - A dozen or so fighters of the same type and their pilots & ground crews. Squadrons commonly flew together for large missions.
Air Group - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. An air group is a purely administrative unit, it never actualy flys together as a single unit in combat.
This by the way is where we get the title CAG (Commander, Air Group). After WW2 when the name was changed to Air Wing, offically the title of the commander became 'Commander, Air Wing', but noone wants to be called "CAW" (would you?), so the original title of CAG was kept, even tho, technically speaking, there no longer is any such thing as an Air Group for the CAG to command...
Now for the muddle that is WC...
Wing (called a 'flight' in some novels, but always a 'wing' in the games) - A small number of fighters usually from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission. Wing sizes are quite variable in WC, however 2 to 4 is most common.
Squadron - what a squadron is in WC depends on the particular game or book in question... in WC1 and the novels a squadron is more or less the same as ive described above. In WC2-WC4 a squadron seems to refer to a group of pilots and their ground crews only, any squadron can fly any fighter on the carrier depending on the requirements of the current mission. In Prophecy, if the game were to be taken literally, a Squadron would be an Air Group type unit.
Flight Group (never called such in the game dialog, but Angel's office door on the T.C.S. Concordia in WC2 lists her title as 'Commander, Flight Group', this level unit is usually called a Wing in the novels) - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. A flight group is generally an administrative unit, it rarely if ever, flys together as a single unit in combat.
Hope that clears up some of the confusion... tho im willing to bet it'll actually stir up more debate.. lol
Sure woulda been nice if the programmers and writers of WC had bothered to keep things consistant huh? Prolly would have saved all of us many a wasted hour in pointless debates... then again... I have a feeling most ppl would have found other stuff to debate and nit-pick about anyway
I'll start with how things are in most modern western militaries:
Element - 2 fighters, a Leader and a Wingman.
The basic unit of fighter combat, modern air forces ALWAYS fly in pairs whenever possable simply because the buddy system has proven to be the most effective in combat (a lesson which ConFed has apparently forgotten given how often they send fighters out alone or in groups of 3).
Flight - A small number (usually 2-6, 4 being most common) of fighters from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission.
Squadron - The smallest permanent unit, a squadron is a dozen or so fighters of the same type and their pilots & ground crews. Squadrons are largely an administrative unit, they rarely, if ever, fight together as a unit in modern battles.
Air Wing - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. A wing is a purely administrative unit, it never actualy flys together as a single unit in combat.
Now WC being 'world war II in space' i'll list the differences from modern terminology. WW2 air forces used generally the same system as modern ones use, but they had different terms.
Wing - A small number of fighters from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission. Wing sizes were more variable in WW2 and wings of 3 or 5 were common as were wings of 4 or 6.
Squadron - A dozen or so fighters of the same type and their pilots & ground crews. Squadrons commonly flew together for large missions.
Air Group - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. An air group is a purely administrative unit, it never actualy flys together as a single unit in combat.
This by the way is where we get the title CAG (Commander, Air Group). After WW2 when the name was changed to Air Wing, offically the title of the commander became 'Commander, Air Wing', but noone wants to be called "CAW" (would you?), so the original title of CAG was kept, even tho, technically speaking, there no longer is any such thing as an Air Group for the CAG to command...
Now for the muddle that is WC...
Wing (called a 'flight' in some novels, but always a 'wing' in the games) - A small number of fighters usually from the same squadron assigned to work together for a specific mission. Wing sizes are quite variable in WC, however 2 to 4 is most common.
Squadron - what a squadron is in WC depends on the particular game or book in question... in WC1 and the novels a squadron is more or less the same as ive described above. In WC2-WC4 a squadron seems to refer to a group of pilots and their ground crews only, any squadron can fly any fighter on the carrier depending on the requirements of the current mission. In Prophecy, if the game were to be taken literally, a Squadron would be an Air Group type unit.
Flight Group (never called such in the game dialog, but Angel's office door on the T.C.S. Concordia in WC2 lists her title as 'Commander, Flight Group', this level unit is usually called a Wing in the novels) - a small number of squadrons of different types organized to form a combat force that can perform most any mission required by the current campaign. A flight group is generally an administrative unit, it rarely if ever, flys together as a single unit in combat.
Hope that clears up some of the confusion... tho im willing to bet it'll actually stir up more debate.. lol
Sure woulda been nice if the programmers and writers of WC had bothered to keep things consistant huh? Prolly would have saved all of us many a wasted hour in pointless debates... then again... I have a feeling most ppl would have found other stuff to debate and nit-pick about anyway
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Those are (in modern terms) elements. They're assigned on a mission-by-mission basis.
overmortal
Bearded Person
It just so happens that Origin didn't pay the actor to say "This is Charlie one, I'm ready to come home" or "This is Beta one, I'm tired of doing these voiceovers"
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Squadron->Wing->Air Group
Things like elements are mission specific.
Things like elements are mission specific.
nah doesnt mean stupid, its just kinda convoluted and nonsenseicle
Alpha wing, Beta wing, Charlie wing, etc... are just reused temporary callsigns for the various wings (flights) involved in the current mission. The reason why you the player are always in Alpha wing (in WC as well as most other games) is just because its cheaper (dont have to pay the voice actors to say every radio line in the game for every wing callsign), and simpler from a programming aspect, also keeps the player from becomeing confused... if some one says "Hey Alpha 1..." you always know theyre talking to you the player. And in Wing Commander you're always the... erm.. wing commander... so you're always Alpha 1
In the 'real' ConFed Space Force you'd get a different (Alpha 1, Beta 1, Delta 3, etc)callsign for each mission, its just too complicated to be worth programming into a game.
Alpha wing, Beta wing, Charlie wing, etc... are just reused temporary callsigns for the various wings (flights) involved in the current mission. The reason why you the player are always in Alpha wing (in WC as well as most other games) is just because its cheaper (dont have to pay the voice actors to say every radio line in the game for every wing callsign), and simpler from a programming aspect, also keeps the player from becomeing confused... if some one says "Hey Alpha 1..." you always know theyre talking to you the player. And in Wing Commander you're always the... erm.. wing commander... so you're always Alpha 1
In the 'real' ConFed Space Force you'd get a different (Alpha 1, Beta 1, Delta 3, etc)callsign for each mission, its just too complicated to be worth programming into a game.