Quick question, maybe a stupid one, does Captain Sansky (David Suchet) die or does he just go to the sick bay? Haven't seen the film for a long time, and I always felt his exit from the film was a bit ambiguous, we just see him unconscious with a bump on the head. Also did it happen during a jump or a fight with a Kilrathi ship?
Does Sansky die in the Wing Commander movie?
- Thread starter G Man
- Start date
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
I think it is implied that he dies, but the original plot was supposed to have him in sick bay. Check the cut scenes from the movie as released for the CIC's birthday just gone by.
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frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
I always took it on faith that he died. Didn't the original plot say he admitted to being a pilgrim right before he died?
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Interesting question that's difficult to answer.
In the version you've seen, he's injured or killed in the battle with the Kilrathi -- there's a shot of him falling down, blood on his head and that's all you see. There's no reaction from the other characters... for a good reason!
In the original version-as-filmed, he was only injured in the fight with the Kilrathi... we would see him taken to sickbay and then at the end of the film where it would be revealed that he was a traitor feeding information to the Kilrathi (he then dies, having poisoned himself).
In the version you've seen, he's injured or killed in the battle with the Kilrathi -- there's a shot of him falling down, blood on his head and that's all you see. There's no reaction from the other characters... for a good reason!
In the original version-as-filmed, he was only injured in the fight with the Kilrathi... we would see him taken to sickbay and then at the end of the film where it would be revealed that he was a traitor feeding information to the Kilrathi (he then dies, having poisoned himself).
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Hey Loaf quick question that relates to this... a while back there was some discussion that when Sansky was on the Bridge during the ambush, he was holding a Pilgrim's cross when he hesitated to raise the shields. Are we sure it was the cross and not Tolwyn's ring? I rewound the movie several times, and what I think everyone saw as the bottom of the cross, didn't resemble the one I own, and looked more like a ring.
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
There's no question that it's a Cross. He has a ring and is fiddling with it as well, but the ring is on his finger while the cross is in his hand. I took screenshots if you're wondering. Here's a link to the screenshot if you really aren't convinced: http://www.crius.net/zone/attachment.php?attachmentid=1888&d=1156017219
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Well thats the problem... most movies these days, even ones that are considered "cult" movies pander to the whims of the General public in order to attract a new fan base. Which I understand the need to do, but something is lost by doing this...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think that's entirely the case; certainly, the final cut of the movie has problems and some of them go back to the heavy cuts... like the lack of the intended climax onboard the concom. At the same time, it's not a case of simply bowing to public pressure -- the cuts were made by the director to fix things he thought were wrong with the film.
- The longer cut of the movie requires several extended scenes of the Kilrathi -- including ones where they're interacting directly with human actors (conversing with Wilson, fighting Blair). Chris Roberts wasn't pleased with how the Kilrathi looked and wanted to de-emphasize them throughout.
- Test audiences were likely exactly right about the traitor reveal; it lacks punch. You're shown a mysterious space-suited traitor several times... and the reveal is that he's the man who appeared for under a minute in the introduction? There was no reason to remember who he was in the first place, much less be shocked that he was betraying the Confederation.
- I'm sorry, I can't read the script without thinking Merlin is dumb and that we're lucky we lost him. He's Episode II C-3PO times a million--awful jokes that are completely out of tone with the rest of the movie. The film suffers a lot because the exposition he's supposed to provide disappeared suddenly... but boy am I happy I don't have to tell people I'm a fan of the Star Wars knock off with the tiny CGI wizard pal.
Restoring the cuts wont' change the issues people had with the movie, either -- it still has the same big World War II tropes, the same strange ships, the same rubber Kilrathi, the same Freddie Prinze Jr... it's an interesting thing to see, for sure, but it's not an ultimate fix that will make Wing Commander a guaranteed classic.
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
While i agree that this would not be a significant change that would change the movie's standing at all. I do think that adding in these cut scenes would improve the movie's story at least a little. Either way, as you said, it would be interesting to see.
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Some of the cuts were perhaps right, Merlin probably wasn't a good idea, but cutting it made a number of scenes seem ackward since they ADRed lines to change their context and in other instance blair's speech is wierd because he was really supposed to be talking to a little holographic man. There should have been a rewrite to fix the script issues losing merlin created though.
I don't entirely agree on the traitor reveal though. Maybe it's because I know who he is from countless years involved with the CIC but when I saw the extended cut (without merlin mind you) I didn't really care who the traitor on the Kilrathi ship was. He was a crazy pilgrim and that was pretty self evident. The big reveal with a more emotional impact is that sansky is a traitor. Sansky's death scene had more weight to it than the concom battle and added needed tension to the following capship battle/rapier flight to Sol because of him locking out some of the Tiger Claw's systems (the Drones for one). I'm not so sure people were confused about the traitor subplot as opposed to what was going on in general in the test screenings if it was cut up the way they did in the rough cut I saw to mask that they removed Merlin.
All the ships and costumes would have looked the same etc, but I think a lot of context gets lost in the cuts. Just in general, I think lillards acting comes off a lot stronger in the rough cut. The opposite is true for Prinze though. He's as bland as ever but the restored cuts remove the goofyness from his dialogue. It's not as laughable.
While Chris changed stuff that he felt didn't work, a lot of that wasn't because he wanted to but because he didn't have the money to fix those things/finish the effects. I kind of want to see what kind of effect including merlin in the film would have had. I wouldn't want him to be jar jar-like for sure but I can imagine a more dry-witted/sarcastic figure playing things completely straight faced and with a more normal voice than the rapier's computerized vocals might have been ... interesting. I would still have prefered a rewrite get rid of him properly, but at least a bunch of the wierdness from some of the lines that a re supposed to be directed at Merlin would work differently. It may not make people like it but I would enjoy seeing how it would have translated to the screen.
Ultimately a proper extended version of the film may not make people who hate the film like it, but it can't really hurt anyone's opinions either.
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
At the moment you can only look at the pictures we have. we may be able to post something in the future but for now we were asked not to upload the actual scenes themselves. If you get a change to visit LOAF or go to dragoncon with him (if he goes which I think he is planning on doing) next year then he's allowed to show it to you then if you want. The tape quallity is pretty awful though.
HeartoftheTiger
Rear Admiral
I agree on Freddie Prinze Jr., but other than that, I beg to differ. Yeah, when I first saw the movie I was shocked on how different everything looked, and to this day I'm not very pleased with the new look of the Kilrathi. But since I know the reason behind those new designs I cannot blame the movie for it. And in time, I got used to it.
All in all, after reading the descriptions that were posted on the WCnews anniversary, I really do think that the movie would have improved significantly. We would have lost the plothole concerning the pilgrims cross (Blair's is suddenly gone), and it would have given the story more complexity, which was and to this day is one of my main complaints. Yes, to expect a 90 minute to 2-hour-movie to have the same epic feel and complexity like a 20 hour videogame is unfair, but if the plot of your movie is so far below all the WC-games since "Vengeance of the Kilrathi", you've got a problem. The traitor-storyline would have helped to fix that.
So even if I know that it's highly unlikely, I still keep my fingers crossed that we may see an extended cut (on Blu Ray?) someday...
I couldn't agree more.
But where did you see that extended cut? I'm jealous!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Oh, I agree with you completely--and I'll argue in favor of Freddie Prinze Jr., too (in short: American teen pop stars as the rookies contrasted with experienced European character actors as the veterans is the whole feel of the war expressed in casting). I'm just repeating the problems everyone else had with the movie -- reviewers and the like will still be complaining about those things after the extended cut.
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Ah, the advantages of being a CIC staff member. I did all the text and screenshots for the birthday 'deleted scenes' article (LOAF did all the formating/html).
Thank you all for your very helpful answers. I wanted to know because I was going to submit this information to a site called Cinemorgue (a site that lists the screen-deaths of actors and actresses), but since it's not explicit that Suchet dies in this film (and deleted scenes don't quite count because they aren't part of the finished story) I'll leave it out. From what I remember no one says he's dead (maybe because they had a code of not talking about the dead) I think Commander Gerald (Jurgen Prochnow) just says "I'm taking over command now from Sansky" (or something like that).
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Why didn't Gerald's command last? I thought I read somewhere that he was quickly replaced?
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Well, he /must have been/ quickly replaced - since Tolwyn is commanding the Tiger's Claw a weeks or months later (and then Halcyon and then Thorn within a year). There's no particular story about the change, though--it's likely the obvious thing... simply taking command when the assigned captain dies isn't the same thing as a permanent promotion.
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Yeah I know, but I would think brass would look favorably on such things.