Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Well, allright, how often do we hear about whatever Blair's "real" religion is?
Bandit LOAF said:Well, allright, how often do we hear about whatever Blair's "real" religion is?
Viper61 said:I always thought of his Pilgrim heritage as a little more of a reason why Blair is just so damn good at being a pilot, nothing more.
Ya got me there, forgot about his previous assignments. anyways, back to the other points...Bandit LOAF said:Oh no! Blair's first tour of duty was on the Tiger's Claw... and also... the Tiger's Claw?! I can't figure out the connection! Help!
(This, of course, ignores the fact that neither source claims that the Tiger's Claw was his first assignment - he had previously served on the Formidable, the Waterloo and lectured at the Academy...)
The movie takes place several months before WC1. Three months ago I was in Atlanta. A month ago I was in Austin. Next month I'll be in Paris. Which parts of my life exist?
Manic said:Ya got me there, forgot about his previous assignments. anyways, back to the other points...
Aside from the name discrepancy:
1. Both plotlines Blair is treated as though this were his first visit to the ship.
2. Bossman didn't die until much later in the game series. Blair was the(now dead)Bossman's replacement in WCM. What was Bossman, Jesus Christ in disguise? Did he suddenly rise up from the grave after a few months? Highly unlikely.
3. Paladin was a pilot based out of the tiger's claw in WC1. He was a spy in WCM, who had never flown aboard the 'Claw before arriving, supposedly. (None of the other pilots who were so friendly with him in WC1 seemed to even know of him)
4. Paladin was not French. French people don't say "laddy," or "lass," or "bonny," they insult people who do.
I'm aware of the various theories which try to explain this. Doesn't explain why, through the entire game series, he had a scottish accent implied(and executed by John Ryes-Davis), but had a French accent in WCM. If WC1 happened after WCM, why didn't our favorite Scotsman recognize him? Why the sudden change in accents? It's never alluded to in any of the fiction that he knew Blair before the events of WC1. It wasn't to "keep his cover," as all the pilots you meet in WC1 were also in WCM, and knew of Paladin's true rank towards the end.
I doubt someone who had flown alongside Blair for such a battle would say "Ach, hello laddy! I'm Paladin!" when he ran into him again. Nor would Angel, who he had tickled tonsils with at the end of WCM. Talk about cold shoulders, if that was the actual case... Even if ol Pally were hiding his real purpose, Angel wouldn't. Not to mention Hunter, Maniac, or the others for that matter... I'm sure they'd recognize a shipmate from a few months before.
"Hi! I'm Maniac!"
"G'day mate, I'm Hunter!"
^I forget the exact phrases, but they were along these lines. You fellas keep trying to pound that Yugo tranny into place... Myself, I'd rather toss it aside. It doesn't fit.
Col.Dom said:*Sigh,* all those "discrepancies" have been explained to death. I'm not in the mood to type them all out but just know they exist. Either I'll post the answers tomorrow or LOAF will do it for the one thousandth time.
No, you and I'd say about 10% of the active posters here aren't accepting them. The rest of us are either happy with them or know its not worth wasting our time arguing about something that is really not going to cause one freakin solitary ripple on the lake of life.dextorboot said:Quite frankly, the explanations haven't been good enough. People aren't accepting them.
Revelations abounddextorboot said:. . .people won't change their minds.
1. Both plotlines Blair is treated as though this were his first visit to the ship.
As for knowing Blair at the Academy -- that's been a part of WC's mythology since the first game... the introductions in WC1 are to give the *player* an introduction to the characters. Maniac and Blair were both graduates of the most recent Academy class according to Claw Marks, and details of the Academy years are found in the aforementioned WC1/2 Guide. We can look at the 'introductory' conversations one at a time, though... (Shotglass, Bossman, Iceman and Spirit can be ignored, since there's no indication that they'd met Blair previously). I do, of course, recognize *why* they were originally written -- but I think we can examine them in another light now...
Angel, Hunter and Knight all start their 'intro' callsigns asking if they have Blair's callsign right...
"Maverick, right? I'm Knight."
"You're Maverick, right? They call me Hunter, mate. G'day."
"Bonjour, Lieutenant. You are called Maverick, no?"
Given Blair's switching of callsigns (from Maverick to Pilgrim back to Maverick), this could be construed as some sort of running joke... especially since Blair doesn't actually respond to them, and they immediately jump into ranting about whatever's on their mind.
Paladin introduces himself differently: "Och, laddy, take a seat an' tilt a glass with ol' Paladin. I recall once when I was just a lieutenant like yourself there..." (he goes on to tell the anecdote) -- there's no indication that they've never met before; in fact, he seems rather familiar with Blair. As we see in the movie, Paladin is both a special operative *and* a pilot -- he points out that he's served on Tiger's Claw in the past in the movie novel, and presumably could do so again... it's also indicated in the WC3 novel that Paladin *was* an operative before he 'retired'.
Maniac's, though, can only be sarcasm: "Hey, Maverick. I'm Maniac. Glad to meetcha."
2. Bossman didn't die until much later in the game series. Blair was the(now dead)Bossman's replacement in WCM. What was Bossman, Jesus Christ in disguise? Did he suddenly rise up from the grave after a few months? Highly unlikely.
We don't really know Bossman's story, since no source to explain it exists... it's been a source of much discussion over the years, and only one logical story makes sense: Bossman was captured by the Kilrathi. The story behind his 'final' mission in the movie is known, as the Confed handbook includes Angel's letter to his wife... essentially, his fighter was damaged fighting a delaying action and he was killed "instantly" by radiation. Since we know from the other non-movie novels that CO's tend to claim that loved ones were killed in action rather than be captured in letters home, we might guess that that's what has happened here -- Bossman ejected from his damaged fighter and was captured by the Kilrathi. The damaged fighter was then recovered and given to Blair... Angel wrote the letter home claiming he was dead, because the alternative was too horrific.
That's all speculation, though -- it's a story that hasn't been told yet.
3. Paladin was a pilot based out of the tiger's claw in WC1. He was a spy in WCM, who had never flown aboard the 'Claw before arriving, supposedly. (None of the other pilots who were so friendly with him in WC1 seemed to even know of him)
4. Paladin was not French. French people don't say "laddy," or "lass," or "bonny," they insult people who do.
I'm aware of the various theories which try to explain this. Doesn't explain why, through the entire game series, he had a scottish accent implied(and executed by John Ryes-Davis), but had a French accent in WCM. If WC1 happened after WCM, why didn't our favorite Scotsman recognize him? Why the sudden change in accents? It's never alluded to in any of the fiction that he knew Blair before the events of WC1. It wasn't to "keep his cover," as all the pilots you meet in WC1 were also in WCM, and knew of Paladin's true rank towards the end.
I doubt someone who had flown alongside Blair for such a battle would say "Ach, hello laddy! I'm Paladin!" when he ran into him again. Nor would Angel, who he had tickled tonsils with at the end of WCM. Talk about cold shoulders, if that was the actual case... Even if ol Pally were hiding his real purpose, Angel wouldn't. Not to mention Hunter, Maniac, or the others for that matter... I'm sure they'd recognize a shipmate from a few months before.
"Hi! I'm Maniac!"
"G'day mate, I'm Hunter!"
^I forget the exact phrases, but they were along these lines. You fellas keep trying to pound that Yugo tranny into place... Myself, I'd rather toss it aside. It doesn't fit.
Quite frankly, the explanations haven't been good enough. People aren't accepting them. You can explain them "to death" all you want, but if you're just going to use the same old reasons, people won't change their minds.
Regarding the original topic, I think the reason we try to fit every piece of WC material into an official continuum is that we have so little of it. It's the opposite problem of something like Star Wars, with tens of thousands of things produced and often contradictory to the point where Lucas had to issue an official canonity guide. Wing Commander, in spite of differences in appearance, has generally had no such problem (apart from maybe the Confederation Handbook ... and even that adds its fair share of interesting tidbits). So it makes sense to consolidate it simply for the sake of having a more fully realized backdrop.
Quite frankly, the explanations haven't been good enough.
Nemesis said:How so? Can you really explain what you mean by “good enough”? What would be “good enough” in your view?
TC said:To continue on with your points, after the first game I don't believe we ever hear of the Mopoks again! Wing Commander 2 is obviously, therefore, in a different universe altogether!
Bandit LOAF said:In another year or two we'll be having "Why didn't they make the Dralthi in Genesis look like the awesome ones in the movie?!"
Bandit LOAF said:Another interesting side note: there *are* continuity issues in the movie that bother even me - but no one has ever brought them up. It's always the same five complaints over and over and over again...
Col.Dom said:Did you just give something away, here!?
Col.Dom said:I find it amazing that everyone cries about WCM being "not canon" or an "alternate reality," yet say nothing about the overly-odd S*U*P*E*R Wing Commander.
WildWeasel said:The movie is a bit more visible and easier to obtain. It's difficult to be critical of a product you've never seen or played.
Viper61 said:No, you and I'd say about 10% of the active posters here aren't accepting them. The rest of us are either happy with them or know its not worth wasting our time arguing about something that is really not going to cause one freakin solitary ripple on the lake of life.
Bandit LOAF said:My experience has been the very opposite - that an unexpectedly high percentage of people involved in these threads actually end up changing their mind.
(Time also plays a factor - people will bash the newest product until another is made available. Before the movie it was Darkening and before Darkening it was Wing 4... both are generally considered classics now. In another year or two we'll be having "Why didn't they make the Dralthi in Genesis look like the awesome ones in the movie?!" arguments.)
Nemesis said:How so? Can you really explain what you mean by “good enough”? What would be “good enough” in your view?
Death said:Why, that everyone agree with him, of course.
Viper61 said:The rest of us are either happy with them or know its not worth wasting our time arguing about something that is really not going to cause one freakin solitary ripple on the lake of life.
Like what? The issue of Blair's parents being dead in the WCM but alive in WCATV?
I'm not one who's eager to get his hopes up again.
The movie is a bit more visible and easier to obtain. It's difficult to be critical of a product you've never seen or played.
Bandit LOAF said:Yeah, Wing Commander might never play Yahoo pool with you again.