Balancing the killboard

Originally posted by Delance
What’s your point, Aries?
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my point is that 10 pilots have more kills than blair. since we are talking about the killboard, who blair killed and what blair killed and how many medals blair has and how many names blair has doesn't matter. the number of kills blair has does, and it that area, blair is ranked 11th. do you understand, or do i have to explain it further?
 
Originally posted by Aries
my point is that 10 pilots have more kills than blair. since we are talking about the killboard, who blair killed and what blair killed and how many medals blair has and how many names blair has doesn't matter. the number of kills blair has does, and it that area, blair is ranked 11th. do you understand, or do i have to explain it further?
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If you count Kilrah or even just the Imperial fleet in orbit about it (with all of their supercarriers), his killcount would be higher.

But that's not the point - he's a hero because he ended the war, even though other pilots got more Kilrathi fighter kills... he got the most aces, and probably holds a record for 'most carriers killed by a single weapons release'. :D

Heck, if you're counting all the fighters on those carriers as well...
 
Originally posted by Aries
my point is that 10 pilots have more kills than blair. since we are talking about the killboard, who blair killed and what blair killed and how many medals blair has and how many names blair has doesn't matter. the number of kills blair has does, and it that area, blair is ranked 11th. do you understand, or do i have to explain it further?
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And how is that important? You are wrong about the topic. It's not the killboard, but "balancing the killboard".

Now, I say that for 2 remoras to have more value than a D-ray results an unbalanced killboard. So, Blair single-handedly kills 10 carriers and a guy who misfires a mace and kills 20 darkets. Killboard gives the advantage to the second. Is that balanced? I say no.

The thing is, the way the kills are counted isn't a really good measure. As Haesslich pointed out, if one takes in account all the fighters and capships destroyed on the Kilrah Bombing Run, he probably would rise up to number 1.

But that's not the point at all. Everyone knows Blair is not ranked 1st, and no one is disputing that.

To be frank, you are just trying to trash Blair, for whom you’re displaying hostile feelings. But don’t come here and foolishly belittle Blair’s accomplishments as if he was a lucky jackass and complain when people disagree with you. Even Blair's enemies acknowledged his greatness - Thrakkath, Tolwyn, Warlord bug.
 
Originally posted by StarLight
And don't think it matter that many of the top 10 pilots were flying in earlier days when shields were thin and stuff. They would have faced just a greater challenge in thinly shielded ships of their own.
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The point isn't about survival, it was about the ease of racking up kills.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
A unit onboard TCS Eagle was originally going to deliver the T-Bomb. "Spyder", from WCP, was supposedly one of the pilots involved.
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When did we learn about that? I can't remember.

Originally posted by Aries
...there is this great quote from hunter in WC1 that goes something along the lines of 'regulations, medals, wingmen, their all sheepdip'
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"Formations, uniforms, medals, wingmen, that’s all sheepdip." ;)

Originally posted by Haesslich
If you count Kilrah or even just the Imperial fleet in orbit about it (with all of their supercarriers), his killcount would be higher.
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Yes, I know kill scores are a poor measure of skill, but they wouldn't even cound this anyway, because AFAIK, kill scores are based on 'confirmed' kills.
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
When did we learn about that? I can't remember.
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WC4 novel mentions the TCS Eagle, which shows up damaged in the same system Victory is, after Tolwyn leaves. WCP's Guide may have noted Spyder's service on it.


"Formations, uniforms, medals, wingmen, that’s all sheepdip." ;)

Yes, I know kill scores are a poor measure of skill, but they wouldn't even cound this anyway, because AFAIK, kill scores are based on 'confirmed' kills.
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If you want confirmation that the Kilrathi fleet was destroyed, just look at the rubble of Kilrah. :D Hell, a planet probably takes more paint than you can get on a fighter, to mark that sort of kill..

I think that Melek's ship would've had records of who else was there and who got splattered and how many fighters they had...
 
My point is that they didn't have a fixed count. And I don't think there's a way of asking that of any of the Kilrathi leaders, not diplomatically, anyway. There's no point to it, even for a historian.
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
My point is that they didn't have a fixed count. And I don't think there's a way of asking that of any of the Kilrathi leaders, not diplomatically, anyway. There's no point to it, even for a historian.
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Actually, he could just ask Melek, as a savior of the Kilrathi people, though it probably wouldn't be kosher... and frankly, who wants to paint a planet on the side of their fighter?

The kills aren't exactly important to him, or his 'hero' status.
 
Originally posted by Delance
And how is that important? You are wrong about the topic. It's not the killboard, but "balancing the killboard".
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killboard, balancing the killboard, whatever.

Now, I say that for 2 remoras to have more value than a D-ray results an unbalanced killboard. So, Blair single-handedly kills 10 carriers and a guy who misfires a mace and kills 20 darkets. Killboard gives the advantage to the second. Is that balanced? I say no.
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actually, it is balanced. a kill is a kill is a kill, whether it was a remora or a devil ray. but anyway, if you go back to the 1st post, you will see that "balancing the killboard" relates to having your kills rank in the hundreds and your wingmen rank in the 20's, not if one ship ranks more than another

The thing is, the way the kills are counted isn't a really good measure. As Haesslich pointed out, if one takes in account all the fighters and capships destroyed on the Kilrah Bombing Run, he probably would rise up to number 1.

But that's not the point at all. Everyone knows Blair is not ranked 1st, and no one is disputing that.
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but since the official record doesn't take those kills into account, why should anyone else?

and for no one disputing blair kill ranking, you were, unless i misunderstood what you said

Originally posted by TC
Blair isn't at the top of the killboard, actually. He's the 11th greatest ace in Space Force history.
Originally posted by Delance
But he's the confed pilot who killed more Kilrathi aces. Including the heir to Kilrah. Not to mention that he took out Kilrah itself
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now, if i misunderstood what you ment, sorry. and as for me trying to trash blair, well, IF i was (which i wasn't), why would i be saying that he was ranked 11 on the all time killboard. last time i checked, that wasn't trashing


Originally posted by Haesslich
WC4 novel mentions the TCS Eagle, which shows up damaged in the same system Victory is, after Tolwyn leaves. WCP's Guide may have noted Spyder's service on it.

well, it was WC3 novel which mentions the eagle :) as for the WCP guide, all it says about spyder is that it is that rumor says he was in black ops and it is whispered that his unit was slated to delicer the t-bomb, but was ambushed by the cats a few days before they were supposed to go. that indicates to me that he probably was on the eagle
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What an oddly hot-tempered thread (G)

If you want confirmation that the Kilrathi fleet was destroyed, just look at the rubble of Kilrah. Hell, a planet probably takes more paint than you can get on a fighter, to mark that sort of kill..
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Ships destroyed as a result of Kilrah exploding would not count towards a 'kill score' because they were not destroyed actively in combat. Blair can probably paint a little bomb on his fighter signifying a succesful bombing run... but there are probably thousands of Longbow pilots who've destroyed masses of Kilrathi fighters attacking drydocks and factories and such. The kill score is for shooting down active enemy fighters.

well, it was WC3 novel which mentions the eagle as for the WCP guide, all it says about spyder is that it is that rumor says he was in black ops and it is whispered that his unit was slated to delicer the t-bomb, but was ambushed by the cats a few days before they were supposed to go. that indicates to me that he probably was on the eagle
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It also goes into some detail about his relationship with Paladin -- being one of his three closest friends and somesuch. Thus, Spyder was Paladin's first choice to launch the attack on Kilrah.
 
Originally posted by Aries
actually, it is balanced. a kill is a kill is a kill, whether it was a remora or a devil ray.
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Not, it's not. A carrier is not as important as a darket. A remora is not as important as a d-ray. An Excalibur Ace is not as important as an ordinary Excalibuir. It's a poor way to measure a mission, let alone careers. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's not well balanced, in this sense. Neither am I disputing Blair's position as 11th.

I know the original subject was about a different aspect, but this is still on-topic.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Thus, Spyder was Paladin's first choice to launch the attack on Kilrah.
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The guy who befriended Hawk?

As for the mark on Blair's shipt, it should be the Imperial Symbol, since he defeated the Empire of Kilrah. Remember, it was a "personal surrender". The rest was just formality.
 
Originally posted by twiligh81
Remember tho... in the "actual" WC universe, your wingmen would be pretty much as good as you... so the ENEMY pilots would be pretty much as good as you too (if also flying somewhat inferior ships), how would you like to fight yourself... usually at 4-6 to 1 odds against? :D
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Actually, I think that'd be quite an interesting challenge. I'd like to fly in the "actual" WC universe, is my point.

I normally play WCP on Rookie level because I just want to fly and blow stuff up, but Ace is about my level of flying skill. Maybe Expert (or whatever it is between Ace and Nightmare). I don't play WC3 any more because Prophecy has spoiled me; WC3 seems impossibly fast. Sigh.

When I play Prophecy on Rookie, the enemy pilots and my wingmen are about as skilled as each other--that is to say, they get the same number of kills--that is to say, none. ;) Technically, I am playing in the "actual" WC universe because all the pilots on both sides have the same skill level--that is to say, they all suck.

When I play Prophecy on Ace, the enemy pilots get about twice as good as my wingmen. That's what I don't like. I wish there was some way to bump up wingman skill so that they reach at least a rough parity with the enemy. I think that'd be a lot of fun.

I'd like to see really well-programmed pilots. I'd like to see flying styles, like Maniac doing insane things and Stiletto being a very good marksman. I'd like to see Bug or Cat pilots do something besides going head-to-head and then rolling out for me to chase them and trying to shake me with some ineffective maneuvers. Every dogfight turns into a chase-down-and-burn exercise. It's boring. Maybe I should play on higher difficulty levels.

Oh, and does anyone else have the problem where Pinpoint (one of the stock pilots) always gets blown out of the sky when he flies with you? He's supposed to be one of the best pilots on the Midway, but BOOKWORM outlives him. Huh???
 
Well a challange sure... but my point was with the odds of enemy forces against ConFed forces in most of the WC games, at any particular point in combat, you'd usually find yourself fighting 2-4 enemy pilots, pretty much as good as yourself, SIMULTANEOUSLY... that ain't a challange... its a quick way to commit suicide... :rolleyes: lol

As for the thing with Pinpoint, about half the time I play through Prophecy I make it through the whole game without any KIAs on the board, cept for Hawk & Dallas, the 2 scripted deaths, which I can't save, not that I havent tryed to. lol

But I play on hard, which is easier on your wingmen, as more of the bugs concentrate on shooting at you, the player, rather then at your computer wingmen. lol
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Yup. I've got his uniform!
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And when you try it on, of feel/smell something weird, you can say his quote: "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Over!"
 
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