Alcubierre FTL-Type Capital Ship Concept (Largely for Fun -- Feel Free to Comment)

I don't think we know anything about the age of any WC destroyers (except for the Paradigm, which apparently is very new). Unless the Arena manual added something in this regard that I don't remember, there is no reason to believe that the WC3 destroyers are older than the Gilgameshes or the Exeters.
 
The Confed Handbook makes the statement that each side possess "thousands" of destroyers IIRC. They are the predominate capship in WC, just think how many missions involve Destroyers (friend and foe), they are everywhere.

S*S doesn't add any dates IIRC for any of the Destroyers just the class name for Coventry "Southhampton"
 
Dundradal,

Yes, they are commonplace and exist in large numbers... but they also are some of the easiest capships to destroy...

Technically in the WC-2 timeline there were probably Exeters, Southamptons, and Gilgameshes, and even some Durango's too. The Gilgameshe's were probably the most advanced and most common though...


Victoria Kent
 
The only Confed destroyer that we know for sure is brand new is the Paradigm from Priv and its description says it is the most advanced destroyer Confed has produced.

We can't really say for sure which Destroyer type was the most common. We have very little data about their service dates except when we (the player) first encounter them.
 
Ah, yes, the Durangoes are one of the destroyer types that we do have an age for (well, not an age, but some rough idea about how old they are: very old, apparently).

As for the others, everybody does assume that Gilgameshes are more advanced than Exeters, but strictly speaking, there is nothing in WC that would actually imply this.

Come to think of it, I don't think we even know how old the Murphy destroyers in WCP are - they could be war-era as well (...though probably not).
 
The news from the 1st of march has a neat compilation on destroyers:

click here and then scroll down to the 1st.

Of course, that does not change the fact that we mostly don't know entry dates.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So each person works 16 hours a day, 7 days a week then?

In the defense of the fanfic ship, the Johnny Greene stayed on station for years at a time with only one crew.

Technically, I don't know if anyone could 100% confirm or deny what kind of destroyer in particular was used at the Battle of Terra to be honest.

I'm pretty sure you can 100% confirm that there's no way to know. :) The best we could possibly do would be to speculate as to what the author had in mind... which would, if anything (and that's a huge if) be the Exeter, Paradigm or Gilgamesh-class ships.

However considering all these older destroyers are around after the BoT, it would be likely that most of the Gilgamesh's were destroyed at the BoT, and in other battles in deep-space leaving the old ones to either be brought out of the mothballs or refurbished to enable them to remain effective in battle.

This is a fairly stupid story that fans came up with to explain a problem which doesn't exist. The Battle of Terra didn't destroy hundreds or thousands of one particular class of destroyer... and the Confederaton that was fighting a desparate barely-holding-on battle with the Kilrathi didn't have a secret cache of 'these are slightly too old but still work as well as anything' warships that they were waiting to put into service. In actuality Blair simply encounters Gilgameshes in WC2 and Southamptons in WC3 - and that's the end of it. Neithers existence at a specific point implies the lack of the other somewhere in Wing Commander's vast universe.

I don't think we know anything about the age of any WC destroyers (except for the Paradigm, which apparently is very new).

We do see Paradigms as early as 2664, from the blurb about them included with ORIGIN FX.

Unless the Arena manual added something in this regard that I don't remember, there is no reason to believe that the WC3 destroyers are older than the Gilgameshes or the Exeters.

We know they're considered old in Wing Commander III, though - the novelization says so, and claims that the Sheffield (and the Ajax) were as old as the Victory.

The Confed Handbook makes the statement that each side possess "thousands" of destroyers IIRC. They are the predominate capship in WC, just think how many missions involve Destroyers (friend and foe), they are everywhere.

I believe the quote is that the Kilathi have several thousand Ralari... and the implication is that the vast majority of space combat and territory holding is done by warships rather than the precious few carrier groups.

As for the others, everybody does assume that Gilgameshes are more advanced than Exeters, but strictly speaking, there is nothing in WC that would actually imply this.

There's no solid entry date for either, but we can date them both back to to at least the early 2650s. The movie novel has Gilgameshes (including the TCS Gilgamesh herself) in 2654... and the earliest known Exeter dates to around 2652 (the 'Gwenhyvar' was supposedly captured 'a couple' years before The Secret Missions started). (That's not to say either design necessarily originates in that era... the sad fact is that there just aren't any stories about the first half of the war to fill out that sort of detail.)

We can speculate as to intent a little, based on the non-canon (and often since-contradicted!) information in the bible. In that instance, the Exeter gets a lower designation than the Gilgamesh.
 
Bandit LOAF
In the defense of the fanfic ship, the Johnny Greene stayed on station for years at a time with only one crew.

Yeah, but it's hardly realistic to man a ship with a crew of five with only five people. A person's gotta sleep.

I'm pretty sure you can 100% confirm that there's no way to know. :) The best we could possibly do would be to speculate as to what the author had in mind... which would, if anything (and that's a huge if) be the Exeter, Paradigm or Gilgamesh-class ships.

Good point. Although I would speculate Exeter or Gilgamesh since those were both in the "core" WC-games. WC-Privateer, and Privateer II were kind of more peripheral than WC-1 or -2

This is a fairly stupid story that fans came up with to explain a problem which doesn't exist. The Battle of Terra didn't destroy hundreds or thousands of one particular class of destroyer... and the Confederaton that was fighting a desparate barely-holding-on battle with the Kilrathi didn't have a secret cache of 'these are slightly too old but still work as well as anything' warships that they were waiting to put into service. In actuality Blair simply encounters Gilgameshes in WC2 and Southamptons in WC3 - and that's the end of it. Neithers existence at a specific point implies the lack of the other somewhere in Wing Commander's vast universe.

It would seem though that the Gilgamesh is more advanced than the Exeter, and certainly that the Southampton is the oldest of them all. Other than that, you're pretty much right.

We do see Paradigms as early as 2664, from the blurb about them included with ORIGIN FX.

Yeah, but WC-1, WC-2 and WC-3 were the core games. Privateer and Privateer II were kind of peripheral to the plot, not the center of it. But yes, they were around as early as 2664.

[quoote]We know they're considered old in Wing Commander III, though - the novelization says so, and claims that the Sheffield (and the Ajax) were as old as the Victory.[/quote]

They were all from the mid 2630's. The Yorktown class was much older though.

I believe the quote is that the Kilathi have several thousand Ralari... and the implication is that the vast majority of space combat and territory holding is done by warships rather than the precious few carrier groups.

How did the Ralatha fare in popularity compared to the Ralari?

There's no solid entry date for either, but we can date them both back to to at least the early 2650s. The movie novel has Gilgameshes (including the TCS Gilgamesh herself) in 2654... and the earliest known Exeter dates to around 2652 (the 'Gwenhyvar' was supposedly captured 'a couple' years before The Secret Missions started). (That's not to say either design necessarily originates in that era... the sad fact is that there just aren't any stories about the first half of the war to fill out that sort of detail.)

If the Gwenhyvar was captured a few years prior, why did they have Rapiers? I never understood that part.

We can speculate as to intent a little, based on the non-canon (and often since-contradicted!) information in the bible. In that instance, the Exeter gets a lower designation than the Gilgamesh.

The Exeter does strike me as being an earlier design. Slower for one, no AMG's, etc.


BTW: This is a question which might be a tad off topic, but why were the new capships in WC-3 less capable than the ones in WC-2? There were no WC-1 ships in the game...

Victoria Kent
 
Good point. Although I would speculate Exeter or Gilgamesh since those were both in the "core" WC-games. WC-Privateer, and Privateer II were kind of more peripheral than WC-1 or -2

I don't think Dr. Forstchen ever actually played the games - he had a writers guide with a list of ships that included the Gilgamesh, Exeter and Paradigm.

It would seem though that the Gilgamesh is more advanced than the Exeter, and certainly that the Southampton is the oldest of them all. Other than that, you're pretty much right.

Except that we don't know whether or not the Gilgamesh is more advanced than the Exeter and we don't know that the Southampton is the oldest of them all. You've simply assumped both of those things. We only know that the Southampton is at least fifty years old - that's all.

How did the Ralatha fare in popularity compared to the Ralari?

No one knows. There's very little background for the Wing Commander II capital ships.

If the Gwenhyvar was captured a few years prior, why did they have Rapiers? I never understood that part.

The captured ship found in The Secret Missions was the Johann, Gwenhyvar was the name of the ship from the long-standing lower-decks rumor.

The Exeter does strike me as being an earlier design. Slower for one, no AMG's, etc.

We don't really know what the offensive capability of the Exeter is - it clearly has some type of capital turret in the line art. It's entirely possible that it's more advanced than the Gilgamesh - for example, we see that they have a sizable fighter complement...

BTW: This is a question which might be a tad off topic, but why were the new capships in WC-3 less capable than the ones in WC-2? There were no WC-1 ships in the game...

I'm not sure what this question means.
 
BTW: This is a question which might be a tad off topic, but why were the new capships in WC-3 less capable than the ones in WC-2?

Where did you come to that? The Southampton seems to be a mean little destroyer, and has a subtype (TCS Coventry) that sports a rear hangar deck with a half squadron of fighters. When we actually see one fight in WC3 it obiliterates it's target. The Talahasse Class is also a potent capital ship, The TCS Ajax kills a Fralthi II pretty fast too.

Even though the Capital Ship fights in WC3 are all scripted, there is no evidence that the Southampton, Talahasse, and Yorktown are inferior to the ships from WC1 or WC2.
 
Two Tallahasses also do a number on the KIS Karga and her battlegroup in False Colors and that's with little fighter support.

Also, if you compare weapons between them, the WC3 ships seem to be more powerful in that regard in that they mount a variety of turreted weapons besides lasers (Tachyons, AMGs, etc). I think somewhere around the CIC is an breakdown of the turrets on each in game, as Victory Streak only gives stats for lasers and tachyons(?) IIRC, while ignoring AMGs. But it is clear from ingame that they mount more than just little weapons, as the yellow bolts are the new AMG look. Just put yourself into the path of one and you'll find out quickly enough how powerful those ships are, along with their Kilrathi counterparts.
 
I'm just saying the Fralthra seemed to be a far nastier beast of a capship than then Fralthi II... it had 40-something fighters, and was armored more than the Concordia!

If this site's ship database didn't have a bunch of links that lead to nowhere, I'd be able to comare the Ralarrad, to the Ralari...

...But if I remember the Ralari carried 23 fighters and had a 250 kps speed! The Ralarrad to my knowledge had no such speed and fighter capacity...


Victoria Kent
 
I'm just saying the Fralthra seemed to be a far nastier beast of a capship than then Fralthi II... it had 40-something fighters, and was armored more than the Concordia!

Well there aren't only two things that make a Capital ship good or better. Also just because we only see a Fralthi II in WC3 doesn't mean that there are a fair ammount of Fralthras somewhere else. Just because you're in one system and see one ship at some point doesn't mean that it's the only kilrathi Cruiser in use.

It's also the same deal as the Destroyers in Wing Commander, we have no way to determine that the Fralthi II is older or newer than the Fralthra, we just see it at a later date (WC3 and part of one in WCP)
 
Well there aren't only two things that make a Capital ship good or better. Also just because we only see a Fralthi II in WC3 doesn't mean that there are a fair ammount of Fralthras somewhere else. Just because you're in one system and see one ship at some point doesn't mean that it's the only kilrathi Cruiser in use.

It's also the same deal as the Destroyers in Wing Commander, we have no way to determine that the Fralthi II is older or newer than the Fralthra, we just see it at a later date (WC3 and part of one in WCP)

We do see a ship that loks just like the Fralthi II as the flag ship in WC Academy
 
We do see a ship that loks just like the Fralthi II as the flag ship in WC Academy

That's the Agahn Ras Sivar, a type of dreadnaught. The two 'prongs' on the front are similar, but the actual body of the ship is completely different.
 
Back
Top