abnormal swabbie action?
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pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
I am really beginning to just love this site. I don't know why I just opened an account two years ago and didn't come back to it. You guys are awesome to chat with and what not. Damn I have missed too much... *Sniff* 
But now I am here and hopefully you guys wont get too annoyed with my "opinions". 
But now I am here and hopefully you guys wont get too annoyed with my "opinions". 
Wulf
Vice Admiral
Originally posted by Col.Dom
War Elephants ROCK THE CASBAH!!
They sure couldn't handle mountainous terrain or climate when Hannibal tried them, that's for sure! The name of the range that he navigated to get to Rome escapes me. It may have been the Alps, but then again I don't know the exact path Hannibal took, either.
Wulf
Vice Admiral
Originally posted by pygmypiranha
I am really beginning to just love this site. I don't know why I just opened an account two years ago and didn't come back to it. You guys are awesome to chat with and what not. Damn I have missed too much... *Sniff* But now I am here and hopefully you guys wont get too annoyed with my "opinions".
Haha! Yeah...last night demonstrated how far opinions could be taken, huh?
(mine, that is, as well as others...didn't want to appear one-sided)*edit* Yeah, I forgot about the Po.
Just a few odds and ends...
1.) Columbus's big screw-up was in the distance involved. He grossly underestimated the circumferance of the globe. Fortunately for him, there was a large collection of land masses in the way.
2.) Columbus never landed on the American continents. His four voyages never took him past the outer islands.
3.) Columbus's greatest *crime* was probably his inability to see certain racial groups as being on the same level as his own. Actually, the ability to accept all of humanity in general as being more or less equal (specific personalities excepted) is a relatively recent development. There's little indication that the Native Americans saw things much differently. If the natives hadn't confused the Spaniards with the Qetzlcoatl legend, things would probably have turned out quite differently (at least for the first contact parties - diseases would probably still have ravaged the populations following the first contacts).
1.) Columbus's big screw-up was in the distance involved. He grossly underestimated the circumferance of the globe. Fortunately for him, there was a large collection of land masses in the way.
2.) Columbus never landed on the American continents. His four voyages never took him past the outer islands.
3.) Columbus's greatest *crime* was probably his inability to see certain racial groups as being on the same level as his own. Actually, the ability to accept all of humanity in general as being more or less equal (specific personalities excepted) is a relatively recent development. There's little indication that the Native Americans saw things much differently. If the natives hadn't confused the Spaniards with the Qetzlcoatl legend, things would probably have turned out quite differently (at least for the first contact parties - diseases would probably still have ravaged the populations following the first contacts).
It is the normal topic drift, and Raptor's most certainly right, it just happens-all the time.
But pygmypiranha, I'm just trying to learn more about history. (I'm attempting to get my masters, and maybe a Dr. in History/History Education, so I love to learn about this stuff.
)
And yea, he crossed the Alps and Po, and soundly defeated nearly every military force within the Italian pennisula. Afterwards, for a week he stormed around through the fields and hills near Rome, but never actually attacked. (Wierd, he would have won.) Until the Romans began a new assault tactic to draw him away (landing small forces near Carthage to pull their people away from the city, as well as placing Legions within their ships, so that when naval combat came, the Romans easily were able to defeat the poorly equiped/armored sailors on the Carthagenian side), which made Carthage call him back-and ultimately lead to their defeat.
But pygmypiranha, I'm just trying to learn more about history. (I'm attempting to get my masters, and maybe a Dr. in History/History Education, so I love to learn about this stuff.
)And yea, he crossed the Alps and Po, and soundly defeated nearly every military force within the Italian pennisula. Afterwards, for a week he stormed around through the fields and hills near Rome, but never actually attacked. (Wierd, he would have won.) Until the Romans began a new assault tactic to draw him away (landing small forces near Carthage to pull their people away from the city, as well as placing Legions within their ships, so that when naval combat came, the Romans easily were able to defeat the poorly equiped/armored sailors on the Carthagenian side), which made Carthage call him back-and ultimately lead to their defeat.
pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
Originally posted by Skyfire
But pygmypiranha, I'm just trying to learn more about history. (I'm attempting to get my masters, and maybe a Dr. in History/History Education, so I love to learn about this stuff.
Schweet dude
Best of luck with that and all. I hope things are going well for you this semester. GO SKYFIRE! ROCK THE CASBAH WITH WAR ELEPHANTS! !
Totally, Skyfire! History is one of my favorite topics, as well. A friend of mine is studying History at UMass Boston. She's actually double-majoring- history and anthropology.
Her and I talk history and debate society all the time. Too bad she doesn't like Wing Commander <G>
Totally, Skyfire! History is one of my favorite topics, as well. A friend of mine is studying History at UMass Boston. She's actually double-majoring- history and anthropology.
Her and I talk history and debate society all the time. Too bad she doesn't like Wing Commander <G>
Wulf
Vice Admiral
Originally posted by Col.Dom
Yeah... well....
They still rock the Casbah.
I concur, because on any other environment, they are excellent packing animals and great siege weapons in themselves! It has been known that a number of war elephants en masse can bring down fortress walls.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Cortes was, however, the first white person to enter the Aztec Empire. There simply hadn't been enough contact with that part of America to bring in the diseases. Yes, within the next twenty years or so most of the population died due to foreign diseases, but Cortez' expedition didn't take twenty years
. By the time the effect of the diseases started showing, it was already all over.Well... not exactly, though you are partially right.
1. Rome's chief fear was that most of the other city-states that Rome ruled over would defect to Hannibal. As it turned out, most stayed loyal. Was it indeed that they didn't really hate Rome, as you say, or was it just fear of the later retribution if Rome won? Difficult to say.
2. Hannibal did attack... during the ten years or so that he spent in Italy, he destroyed two or three Roman armies. Eventually, Rome outmanoeuvred him - they sent an Army to Africa. That's why he was recalled
.I actually don't understand what you mean here
.I'd be happy to, though I'm not sure when I'll get the book back. The person I lent it to hasn't started reading it, apparently.
A few facts about the 2nd Punic War:
Hannibal destroyed 3 Roman armies in the first 3 years of his invasion of Italy.
After the triumph at Cannae, Hannibal chose not to attack Rome because his army was poorly equipped for siege warfare. He also was not certain that he could procure enough supplies to undertake the siege. Consequently he abandoned any plans to attack the city proper.
At this point of their history the Romans were able to call upon almost limitless reserves of men. They had suffered approximately 120,000 fatalities between 218-216 BC, but were still able to adequately garrison Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily, various parts of Italy, fight Hannibal and send armies to Spain. I've seen figures as high as 700,000 quoted.
The overwhelming victories achieved by Hannibal caused considerable fear in Rome on their own account.
Hannibal remained in Italy for another 10-12 years before being recalled. The Romans had successfully corralled him in South Italy and prevented reinforcements from reaching him. Effectively, he achieved little. While dueling with Hannibal the Romans managed to conquer the Carthaginian territories in Spain, making possible the invasion of Africa.
In 202 BC Hannibal was defeated by Scipio Africanus at the Battle of Zama.
As for the conquistadors, well obviously they weren't saints, but a few facts need to be taken into consideration.
Firstly they cannot be blamed for what the plagues did. They did not deliberately spread the disease.
Secondly pretty much everyone in those days was xenophobic. The Europeans went so far as to say the Africans had no souls, justifying slavery, the native Americans had been destroyed by the wrath of God (they had no other explanation for why the plagues decimated the natives, but not them) and referred to the Muslims as the 'Terrible Turk.' For their part the Muslims looked on the Christians and Indians as infidels. From the Chinese point of view, anyone who wasn't Chinese was a barbarian (nevermind that the current Ching Dynasty was Manchurian in origin). Its pretty clear that these attitudes would ensure the inevitability of war.
Hannibal destroyed 3 Roman armies in the first 3 years of his invasion of Italy.
After the triumph at Cannae, Hannibal chose not to attack Rome because his army was poorly equipped for siege warfare. He also was not certain that he could procure enough supplies to undertake the siege. Consequently he abandoned any plans to attack the city proper.
At this point of their history the Romans were able to call upon almost limitless reserves of men. They had suffered approximately 120,000 fatalities between 218-216 BC, but were still able to adequately garrison Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily, various parts of Italy, fight Hannibal and send armies to Spain. I've seen figures as high as 700,000 quoted.
The overwhelming victories achieved by Hannibal caused considerable fear in Rome on their own account.
Hannibal remained in Italy for another 10-12 years before being recalled. The Romans had successfully corralled him in South Italy and prevented reinforcements from reaching him. Effectively, he achieved little. While dueling with Hannibal the Romans managed to conquer the Carthaginian territories in Spain, making possible the invasion of Africa.
In 202 BC Hannibal was defeated by Scipio Africanus at the Battle of Zama.
As for the conquistadors, well obviously they weren't saints, but a few facts need to be taken into consideration.
Firstly they cannot be blamed for what the plagues did. They did not deliberately spread the disease.
Secondly pretty much everyone in those days was xenophobic. The Europeans went so far as to say the Africans had no souls, justifying slavery, the native Americans had been destroyed by the wrath of God (they had no other explanation for why the plagues decimated the natives, but not them) and referred to the Muslims as the 'Terrible Turk.' For their part the Muslims looked on the Christians and Indians as infidels. From the Chinese point of view, anyone who wasn't Chinese was a barbarian (nevermind that the current Ching Dynasty was Manchurian in origin). Its pretty clear that these attitudes would ensure the inevitability of war.
who's this fella, Hannibal...? I ... ah, forget it, I will go vote on that "gents" thread Phst, why do I even try to argue with you on points about Latin History Quatro?
Actually, because of the methodology of elections, one of Rome's fears may have been defection, but it wasn't one of their chief ones. The process of election was the courting of favor, through giving gifts/paying for celebrations within the Roman Republic. As a general whole, only the heads of individualized city-states considered the idea of breaking from the Republic, as most citizens realized the idea of being under Carthagenian rule was worse than the idea of being under Roman.
Eh, I don't really think it was because he wasn't well equipped enough. (Actually it's a subject of debate among scholars to this day.) It seems more likely that he was attempting to rally Roman areas to his banner, and failed. (As he tromped throughout Italy, and begin trying to form his own military command units, not to mention set up supply depots for any type of future war effort on his part.)
As for the manpower, they couldn't really call up unlimited reserves, as they were relatively confined. However, once they did lure away Hannibal through "foreign" (or out of Italy) military action, the units he had attempted to form for command/recruitment purposes, turned out to actually support Rome, which gave them both an already formed fighting force, as well as people trained in the art of Hannibal's tactics. This was evident when the seperation, near the modern day Vatican, gave Rome nearly a hundred thousand soldiers with an already prevailant command structure.
While you are correct that it was the invasion of Spain that lead to the possibility to attack Carthage, which was through naval routes, not land routes, actually. It was the defeat of Carthage's Navy outside the reefs of Siciliy that allowed for an actual Roman invasion.
Although I do have to agree with you, Hannibal's victories were the major concern for the Republic, as they feared that should Rome fall, the rest of their fledgling empire would begin to crumble without any hope of a leadership base from the home city.
Actually, because of the methodology of elections, one of Rome's fears may have been defection, but it wasn't one of their chief ones. The process of election was the courting of favor, through giving gifts/paying for celebrations within the Roman Republic. As a general whole, only the heads of individualized city-states considered the idea of breaking from the Republic, as most citizens realized the idea of being under Carthagenian rule was worse than the idea of being under Roman.
Eh, I don't really think it was because he wasn't well equipped enough. (Actually it's a subject of debate among scholars to this day.) It seems more likely that he was attempting to rally Roman areas to his banner, and failed. (As he tromped throughout Italy, and begin trying to form his own military command units, not to mention set up supply depots for any type of future war effort on his part.)
As for the manpower, they couldn't really call up unlimited reserves, as they were relatively confined. However, once they did lure away Hannibal through "foreign" (or out of Italy) military action, the units he had attempted to form for command/recruitment purposes, turned out to actually support Rome, which gave them both an already formed fighting force, as well as people trained in the art of Hannibal's tactics. This was evident when the seperation, near the modern day Vatican, gave Rome nearly a hundred thousand soldiers with an already prevailant command structure.
While you are correct that it was the invasion of Spain that lead to the possibility to attack Carthage, which was through naval routes, not land routes, actually. It was the defeat of Carthage's Navy outside the reefs of Siciliy that allowed for an actual Roman invasion.
Although I do have to agree with you, Hannibal's victories were the major concern for the Republic, as they feared that should Rome fall, the rest of their fledgling empire would begin to crumble without any hope of a leadership base from the home city.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Extremely true. The most fascinating thing about the history of European discoveries and contacts is that virtually every contact ended with bloodshed, frequently not for any specific reason other than that mutual mistrust.
Note on my earlier posts - I mentioned that I read the memoirs of a guy named Bartolme Diaz who went with Cortez. I checked a history book today, though, and it turns out I got some names confused; the guy was named Bernal Diaz. Bartolme Diaz, on the other hand, was a Portuguese explorer during their African expeditions.
Starkey: I'm surprised none of you gents have answered this one yet Anyways Hannibal was a Carthaginian general. Carthage was a major trading center in the third and second centuries BC. It was located near the present day city of Tunis, in Tunisia, North Africa. Hannibal achieved everlasting military fame when he won a brilliant hat trick of victories over the Romans. First he smashed a Roman army at the River Trebia (possibly the River Po, can't remember which). Then he ambushed and completely annihilated a Roman army on the shores of Lake Tresimene (sp?) [217 BC]. His crowning achievement was the complete destruction of 70,000 legionnaires at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC. Among his other achievements was his decision to attack the Romans via a land route through southern France and across the Alps. To be perfectly blunt, the only reason he is considered second only to Alexander the Great in terms of who was the greatest general of the classical age, is because he was ultimately defeated, while Alexander went on to conquer the largest empire yet seen. After Carthage's defeat, Hannibal fled to Syria, where he committed suicide to avoid capture by the Romans.
Skyfire: What I meant by under-equipped was that he didn't have enough supplies. That's why he had to garner Italian support. Also considering that they were able to deploy several armies at once, despite severe losses, I'd say the Romans had no shortage of troops.
Quarto: I suppose that explains why Confed must fight with every new alien race it encounters Thankfully its only a game
Anyways Hannibal was a Carthaginian general. Carthage was a major trading center in the third and second centuries BC. It was located near the present day city of Tunis, in Tunisia, North Africa. Hannibal achieved everlasting military fame when he won a brilliant hat trick of victories over the Romans. First he smashed a Roman army at the River Trebia (possibly the River Po, can't remember which). Then he ambushed and completely annihilated a Roman army on the shores of Lake Tresimene (sp?) [217 BC]. His crowning achievement was the complete destruction of 70,000 legionnaires at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC. Among his other achievements was his decision to attack the Romans via a land route through southern France and across the Alps. To be perfectly blunt, the only reason he is considered second only to Alexander the Great in terms of who was the greatest general of the classical age, is because he was ultimately defeated, while Alexander went on to conquer the largest empire yet seen. After Carthage's defeat, Hannibal fled to Syria, where he committed suicide to avoid capture by the Romans.Skyfire: What I meant by under-equipped was that he didn't have enough supplies. That's why he had to garner Italian support. Also considering that they were able to deploy several armies at once, despite severe losses, I'd say the Romans had no shortage of troops.
Quarto: I suppose that explains why Confed must fight with every new alien race it encounters
Thankfully its only a game Originally posted by Penguin
[BQuarto: I suppose that explains why Confed must fight with every new alien race it encounters
Except that Confed doesn't.
Unless there was something really, really weird going on behind the scenes with the Firrekans in SM2.
Starkey
Avenging Rooster
I played that battle in Caesar IIIOriginally posted by Penguin
Starkey: I'm surprised none of you gents have answered this one yet
Anyways thanks a lot for the explanation. I love History, but I know more about post- XV century stuff. Before that my knowledge is not very good.
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