A way to prevent the Kilrathi invasion?

Dundradal said:
Confed was very far behind the kilrathi in terms of cloaking technology. The kilrathi had an early mastery of the technology and it wasn't until 2669 and the excalibur and shroud device that confed had a useful cloak, although the shroud wasn't able to hide the visible spectrum so visual sightings were possible.
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Yes, I'm well aware that Confed didn't have the technology at the time; it's not clear that even the Kilrathi had it before WC3 anyway, especially since it was probably an outgrowth of the cloaking technology dating from the WC2 period. I was mainly just coming up with a hypothetical as to how war could have been avoided, as the technology could have been discovered completely at random (like the Akwende drive... or super polymer missiles! *cough*).

Moonsword said:
The Confederation as we know it has only been seen in wartime or in crisis situations. WC1-3, Priv, and Armada all take place during the Kilrathi War. WC4 was sparked by a Tolwyn-gone-man. In Prophecy, we see preparations for eventual defense sparked by growing unrest within the Kilrathi remnants and then an invasion by a very powerful force.

The *only* time we see Confed in a peace-time situation is during Action Stations, and even then, there is a great deal of stress with the Kilrathi Empire, which the Kilrathi then escalate into a war.

This is without going into the movie's Pilgram Wars, which I neither know about in detail or care that much about. That's the only case you can make for anything resembling Confed aggression. Even False Colors doesn't show Confed all that well, as Bellisarius is manipulating the situation.
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The victors write the history books. By your own admissions, the Confederation has a rather warlike-record, even if they always go to war for the "right" causes--but how do we know they're right? All we have is the official Confederation word, possibly distorted by historical reintrepretations. We must not let our perceptions of the Confederation be clouded by our narrow exposure to the honor and integrity of the individuals who serve in its armed forces; indeed, that was one of the lessons of WC4. A blind, slavish devotion to Confed would have led Blair to stick around on the Intrepid-destroys-the-Lexington losing path. Another of the lessons of WC4 was Blair's fate should he choose the Hawk rather than Panther end game. Only by renouncing the seductions of power to become a flight instructor did he avoid Tolwyn's fate.

As you look higher up the chain of command, into who actually holds power in the Confederation, the descriptions are not particularly flattering, from Tolwyn's megalomania, to the nearly universal contempt for the civilian authorities and conspiracies in the novelizations, to atrocities committed by Confed (possibly including the Behemoth, the T-bomb attack, Severin's work, and the various bioweapon projects, including the one mentioned in WCATV), to Governor Cavzos's somewhat sinister (at least to me) involvement in managing black operations. The Secret Ops fiction points to a Confederation that is spiralling out of control, dissolving into myriad factions competing against each other for dominance.

All of this, I believe, makes a good case that the Confederation has always been portrayed to be a bit darker than would appear at first glance, especially from WC3 on. However, I based my original comments on a complete faith in human nature's underlying aggressiveness (a point which I've tried to make several times before, so I won't rehash it here). :) We didn't get to top of the food chain by being nice...
 
The contempt held by the military against the civilians in control is universal even today. We don't have many indepth looks at the higher functions of the confed govt (the small amount of them seen in FA is about it).

It's not to surprising for confed to becoming more factioned, after 30 years of constant warfare a lot of things have time to simmer and when the chance to boil over is allowed they most likely will. It's almost sad but true that confed needs some kind of common enemy or goal in order to stay a united human entity.
 
GeeBot said:
to atrocities committed by Confed (possibly including the Behemoth, the T-bomb attack, Severin's work, and the various bioweapon projects, including the one mentioned in WCATV), to Governor Cavzos's somewhat sinister (at least to me) involvement in managing black operations. The Secret Ops fiction points to a Confederation that is spiralling out of control, dissolving into myriad factions competing against each other for dominance.

All of this, I believe, makes a good case that the Confederation has always been portrayed to be a bit darker than would appear at first glance, especially from WC3 on. However, I based my original comments on a complete faith in human nature's underlying aggressiveness (a point which I've tried to make several times before, so I won't rehash it here). :) We didn't get to top of the food chain by being nice...
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I don't believe the Behemoth and T-bomb were attrocities, I would call them self defense....but then I guess I am just blind to the Confederation's Propaganda. It keeps me warm like a nice blanket.
 
GeeBot, would you please read the first part of that statment before you start trying to twist facts. We only see Confed in crisis situations.

Number one, Prophecy can be discounted to a fair extent as we neither started that war nor had much to do with it beyond defending ourselves and our nominal allies. Cavzo's involvement in Secret Ops is something I'm not completely clear on since I've never managed to get anything productive out of the fiction reader.

Number two, we did not start the Kilrathi War (Action Stations). The Kilrathi did.

Number three, WC1, WC2, and WC3, along with Priv and Armada and all of the novels except False Colors and Price of Freedom take place during that same war. Confed in a crisis situation.

Number four, False Colors, Price of Freedom, and WC4 are the result of a military conspiracy that gained power during thirty+ years of war and is being rooted out. That one I can accept it being argued that we are seeing the warlike nature of Confed but they are seemingly being provoked, as are the Border Worlds.

Number five, the Pilgram Wars. Here, I simply don't know. Say what you will.

The Behemoth was a product of that same conspiracy, and both it and the T-Bombs were weapons of desperation rather than reason. After thirty-five years of war, we were going to lose. We didn't have a choice.
 
I agree. Behemoth and the T-Bomb was made becouse it was the only way to win the war. A normal war where two parts compare strenght would never been won of the confedration...
Theu were outnumbered...
 
GeeBot said:
Actually, if Confed had developed that jump point cloaking technology, they could have just cloaked all the points and maybe the Kilrathi would have never noticed that humanity existed.
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Actually, no all jump points couldn't be cloaked. Both game and novelization mention (though the novel goes a bit more in-depth, given the extra room with which the writer can work, compared to a game script) that the kats only pulled it off because of the nebula. It's not a trick that works in non-nebula space.

As for not knowing about humanity, doubtful. They were able to listen in on radio transmissions (where they got some of the taunts that Bear comments on, in End Run), so even if they couldn't see the jump points (ignoring, for a moment, that the jump point cloak only handles the "local" side of a jump path, not the other end of the line) there'd be evidence there's someone out there, which would be enough to start the hunt.
 
Death said:
As for not knowing about humanity, doubtful. They were able to listen in on radio transmissions (where they got some of the taunts that Bear comments on, in End Run), so even if they couldn't see the jump points (ignoring, for a moment, that the jump point cloak only handles the "local" side of a jump path, not the other end of the line) there'd be evidence there's someone out there, which would be enough to start the hunt.
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"Bugs Bunny blows his mother!"

Hobbes or Kirha were quite saddened when it was explained to them that such attacks on our favorite cartoon Bunny did little to enrage us....
 
Dundradal said:
The new Corsair fighter was also delayed by Moore's actions. Also, the fact that confed lacked the shipbuilding capability to quickly build capships for war. Tolwyn speaks to Bainbridge about this in FA when he says something along the lines of, "We weren't ready for this war. We didn't have the shipyards available to match the kilrathi. It takes 10 years to build a yard and then 5 years to build a carrier..."
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It was Banbridge, and in End Run. He says that they had to beg for the funds to build shipyards, and even then they didn't get enough.
 
It should be noted to that cloaking the jump point does nothing if the Cats already know it;s there...as the WC3 novelization states, a ship that still has the coordinates could still use the jump point even if it was cloaked.

It worked well as a spoke affect, but that's all it worked as, and then, only once.

Kinda like if you ever hear Steven Speilberg talk about Jaws and the musical theme, how he knew he could only scare people with it once...
 
... and it only worked in nebulas (or maybe only even in one nebula). It was a pretty pointless secret weapon. :)

Edit: though it would be useful for hiding an unknown star system.
 
A barking jump point to scare the cats away would do the trick.

And this thread still reminds me of Joshuas thread... not as funny though. :(
 
If Bainbridge and the other admirals had had their way at the beginning the kat invasion may have been less effective. By only pushing on them in the Facin Sector, confed was not really doing much of anything. If the fleets had been sortitied and made battle ready (and even so this would still leave some ships not functioning as parts from them were required to get other ships to run) it might have been a much better fight at McAuliffe, Alexandria and the skyhook tower could have probably been saved....
 
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