A Nephilim Topic

[Deadman_ny]

Just because an alien race is advanced doesn't mean it's hostile.
The Mantu may have encountered the Kilrathi and known that they weren't fun loving people. When the Kilrathi started to get too close they repeled them, but they didn't crush the Kilrathi. Even when the Kilrathi were at war with the Terrans they didn't exsploit this. So they were far from concorers. Refugees from concered worlds must have gotten word to other systems of what the Kilrathi were capable of. Before the outbreak of war between the Kilrathi and Terrans we were warned but being headstrong ignored it. We felt we could handle their outdated fleet that they postured in front of us while the real threat came.

The Kilrathi weren't originally part of the higher pyramid however. Being a society built of hostility and domination not technological achievments or exsploration. It was in fact critical that they were able to reach to the stars with the help of more technologicaly advanced spieces. Otherwse it would likly of taken centuries longer for Kilrathi to go through societal and technological changes. Vakku saw they empire as an empty shell. All they knew was war and exspansion. Very little thought was giving to trade or infistructure. Give Gangus Kong a spaceship and what is he going to do? Use it to chart worm holes and spacial anomolies or ask the "space man" how to build antimater weapons?

I doubt we'd subsugate weaker races but given our history as a race. Who knows. Thankfully in the Wing Commander universe we're kinda "nice".
The Kilrathi stole much of their technology from other races that weren't aggresive. Then wiping them out or enslaving races in essence disturbing the balace of power in the universe. They screwed with the natural order of things that the "higher ups" in the galaxy had been twaeking with and coxing into the directions they felt were ideal for a milenia. They lost the war with the terrans and had payed the price. I keep thinking of Babylon 5. The Shadows and Vorlons in the background influencing without us knowing it.

The Mantu coming back to finish the job may not have been what the prophecy was. The Mantu and Nephilem are two different races after all. The prophecy may have simply been that the Kilrathi were going to loose the war. The defining thunder being their world blowing up and the Kilrathi people being discraced in the eyes of Sivar. The beginning of a dark age for them. Perhaps it was a good thing, their cultual base in tatters, they can begin to accept new ideals. Melek said this in so many words when he surrendered to Blair.
The Nephile attacking may have simply been a quisidence. You detect a couple of planets blowing up and your going to wonder why and maybe check out whats happening... Finley from WCP believed that the "bugs foreay into Kilrathi space was recon only."

It's a prophecy...it can be interpreted in many ways. Ever notice "dooms day" keeps getting pushed up. Instead of fearing it many are starting to hope that the lights will just go out.
The coming of a waarline empire of almost unimaginalble strength that was coming from the core 10,000 light years off. A powerful race... If that's the Nephilem I think we'll be ok.
An allience between the Confederation and the clans against this "warlike empire" (not the Nephilem) coming from the core would be interesting.

You've got 3 "gods" standing on a moutain. The first god that created the Varni. The second god that created the Terrans. The third god: Kilrathi.
First god sees the Varni getting wiped out by the Kilrathi.
Third god laughs and says "shit happens."
Second God: "I got 20 my guys will win"
Third god: "Make it 50"

 

[Deadman_ny]

The first gate amplified an anomoly and they build the those towers to power the gate and keep it open.
The other wormhole (SO) draws power off of star. Different power souce different design. They may have been using spare parts too.

 

[Lt.Overload]

The first gate amplified an anomoly and they build the those towers to power the gate and keep it open.
The other wormhole (SO) draws power off of star. Different power souce different design. They may have been using spare parts too.

So any Nephilim that were still alive in the Kilrah systems after Blair and Casey took down the Wormhole went to Proxima to build another wormhole with a binary star, a Dry Dock, and a Comm Relay Station? Odd...

 

[Jason_Ryock]

So any Nephilim that were still alive in the Kilrah systems after Blair and Casey took down the Wormhole went to Proxima to build another wormhole with a binary star, a Dry Dock, and a Comm Relay Station? Odd...

It's more likely the gate was built from the Nephilim side into Proxima, and the Proxima suns were used to power the Sol-side of the gate.

Think about things a minute - there were no bugs in Kilrathi space before the gate opened, so who built the first gate? The Kilrathi? More likely the gate can be opened from Nephilim space into Sol space by the Big Alien Race.

 

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

I'm pretty sure the wormholes are opened form Nephilim/BIG ALIEN RACE space and the gates in the Kilrah and Proxima system were built by those coming through in order to stabilize them. Maybe holding the wormhole up from the other side is very energy intensive.

Heck, we know from WCP that the gate in the Kilrah system is constructed afterwards in order to fortificate that side of the gate. Doesn't Finley also tell us something about the massive energy required?

EDIT: I just re-read S*S and apparently the Mantu also destroyed a Confed ship. Paranoid indeed.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Why do the Nephilim study us so much?

Blair explains this in Prophecy, after being recovered: "Oh, they are fascinated by us, Casey. Our ability to kill without remorse, without pity. Our darker nature."

So much studying leads me to thinking they might indeed be somewhat related to the Mantu for the TCS Midway ICIS Manual.

The quote you're referring to exists to explain why the Nephilim are *not* the Mantu. In short, the Mantu are something of a known quantity to the Confederation in 2681: "Once the propaganda and legend are stripped away, the Mantu seem to have been an insular, somewhat paranoid race of explorers and prospectors who reacted with extreme prejudice to Kilrathi aggression."

This reference exists to 'get rid' of the Mantu. They're a race which was created by Dr. Forstchen for his Wing Commander novels to fulfill the same role as the Nephilim in future stories. When Prophecy decided to use a similar concept presented differently for the 'new aliens', they were kind enough to write out all the novel references to an enemy the Kilrathi feared. (I do wonder if the 'somewhat paranoid' is an oblique reference to Niven's Puppeteers, a paranoid species who had a similar reaction to the Kzinti...)

More to the point, the Mantu are known in an absolute sense by the Kilrathi. The ICIS Manual is written before the face of the enemy is known... if they'd turned out to be Mantu, we would have found out during the course of Prophecy.

If that's true, then why don't they just blow EVERYTHING up, instead of capturing and studying bits and pieces of technology like the Mantu.

I don't think there's any indication anywhere that the Mantu do anything of the sort. Nevertheless, there are several references in Prophecy to the idea that the Nephilim are 'testing' humans after being impressed by the destruction of Kilrah... it's not smiply an expedition to wipe out an enemy.

I doubt they took this ambivolence from Brair since he never enjoyed the killing, imho.

Ambivalence and enjoyment are two different things. Blair was directly responsible for the deaths of more sentient beings than anyone else in human (or likely Kilrathi) history -- and he was able to live with himself.

What discusts me is that Thakath was permitted an ejection system. The fact that he was defeated in battle and ejected and still retain the honor of leading HONORABLE kilathi into battle when he should have had his throut ripped out in the manner befitting a coward.

The idea that Kilrathi do not eject is a misconception -- some types of Kilrathi fighters were equipped with ejection systems when the Empire first went to war. Thrakhath's brother ejected (and then suicided) during the McAuliffe Ambush in 2634. We see ordinary Kilrathi eject on Wing Commander Academy, throughout Wing Commander III and in several other places (the card game, Thrakhath in WC2, etc.) Rather it seems that including an ejection system isn't considered *necessary* in Kilrathi ship design -- some particular models just don't have them.

Also, the idea that Thrakhath is somehow especially dishonorable among Kilrathi is something of a misconception, too. We hear that from *Jukaga*, his political rival... in the same context that a Republican will tell me that a Democrat is some kind of monster. Thrakhath seems to have been a respected and reasonably succesful war leader. Important to this specific decision (ejecting rather than dying) is that he was raised in the shadow of a dead brother - Gilkarg (his father) viewed Ratha (his brother)'s suicide as completely unnecessary and surely passed this belief on to the *very end* of his line...

 

[ChrisReid]

So any Nephilim that were still alive in the Kilrah systems after Blair and Casey took down the Wormhole went to Proxima to build another wormhole with a binary star, a Dry Dock, and a Comm Relay Station? Odd...

Obviously not literally. The reuse of models was very cleverly done in Secret Ops. As for the location, there's probably something special about it as it relates to wormholes and/or the ability of the Proxima stars to power the stellar accretion device.