A couple Kilrathi questions.

[Mjr. Whoopass]

I'm working on a fan fic and was wondering if anyone knew the answers to these questions?

1. Is there any Kilrathi fighters WC1 or shortly before that had a crew of at least two- a pilot and a tail gunner? I thought I remembered a fighter shooting at me from behind while playing WC1, but the ships database says a crew of 1 for each fighter.

2. In one of the forum threads, Loaf mentioned a Kilrathi named Drak Nar Kulrag.. does anyone know who this is? What information do we have about this character?

3. What are the typical ages for Kilrathi warriors? At what age do they begin combat and at what age do they retire? I'm assuming they retire as pilots before they retire as capital ship commanders and from other offices. Any year ranges for various services would be appreciated!

 

[Blaster]

1. The Jalkehi showed up in the cartoon show (Episode 4, "Word of Honor,") and it had a tail gun, at least it did in wc2.

 

[Dundradal]

1. Tail gunners have been noted to exist on craft from all eras. Not sure about which ones around WC1 though off the top of my head.

3. Without having everything right in front of me but just from memory and conjecture, so what for a second opinion, kilrathi males are raised warriors from the beginning. Hobbes mentions during WC3 that they learn to use their claws even before then can talk/walk (I forget which). Their combat ages seem similar to the Confederation's although kilrathi not born of noble blood may be put into some combat positions at a lower age. I would assume any kilrathi from 16 - still fit for duty is combat ready. Unless they are totally incapable of fighting performing some combat related duty I don't think they really retire. They may move to a quieter sector, but I think they always contribute to the war effort. They are passionately devoted to their cause, just like the Japanese during WW2. They are fanactical to the point of suicide.

Basically your worst nightmare with fur.

 

[Quarto]

3. Brace yourself for impact - Hobbes entered service at approximately the age of four . It appears as though the Kilrathi mature physically at a much, much faster rate than people. According to the KSaga manual, Hobbes is 28 in WC3, which means he was around 15 in SM2, where he was already an admiral.

(which, come to think of it, isn't that outlandish, once you accept that the Kilrathi are physically mature faster. In human history, we had plenty of brilliant commanders who led armies at the age of 20 - so if a Kilrathi really is ready to fight at the age of four, then he can certainly be a commander at the age of fifteen)

We don't know for how long the Kilrathi live, though. IIRC, there was some evidence that they die of old age sooner than humans do - but I don't remember what the evidence was, and in any case, most Kilrathi warriors presumably didn't die of old age during the war .

 

[Bandit LOAF]

1. Is there any Kilrathi fighters WC1 or shortly before that had a crew of at least two- a pilot and a tail gunner? I thought I remembered a fighter shooting at me from behind while playing WC1, but the ships database says a crew of 1 for each fighter.

Nothing in WC1 has a turret, but several relevant ships did exist in this time period. The Jalkehi and Grikath-class heavy fighters (from WC2) were both in service at this time - they show up on Wing Commander Academy. Action Stations, set at the start of the war (2634), also has the "Asjaka class three-seater bomber".

It's possible that the Krant has a second pilot (it seems to have a second canopy)... but he would be a co-pilot, radar or weapons operato rather than a turet gunner.

2. In one of the forum threads, Loaf mentioned a Kilrathi named Drak Nar Kulrag.. does anyone know who this is? What information do we have about this character?

Drak nar Kulrag (nar is always lower case) was commander of the Naoukeric, a Kilrathi carrier destroyed at Oasis in 2654. He was apparently searching for the same 'sphere' as the Warrior King (in the WCA Episode Recreation).

(I'll admit, I'm curious as to how you decided to ask about a character only by name.)

3. What are the typical ages for Kilrathi warriors? At what age do they begin combat and at what age do they retire? I'm assuming they retire as pilots before they retire as capital ship commanders and from other offices. Any year ranges for various services would be appreciated!

It's hard to say, but we know that Kilrathi mature very quickly -- Hobbes was a warrior at age four and was a Rear Admiral, commanding a light carrier, at age 14 (... but then he was still an able fighter pilot for the Confederation at age 28). The maximum age for Kilrathi seems to be a touch under 100 years -- though the only one we've seen that old was the Emperor.

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Drak nar Kulrag (nar is always lower case) was commander of the Naoukeric, a Kilrathi carrier destroyed at Oasis in 2654. He was apparently searching for the same 'sphere' as the Warrior King (in the WCA Episode Recreation).

(I'll admit, I'm curious as to how you decided to ask about a character only by name.)

I was looking for a Kilrathi name for my character, so I searched the forums and found a list you typed that had the 8 noble clans followed by many other clan names. I chose Kulrag basically becuase I liked the sound of it. I then searched for Kulrag to find any info about the particular name. I found a separate thread where you were naming known Kilrathi and saw Drak nar Kulrag's name on the list. I thought I might include Drak as a character either related to mine or at least as a notable warrior in his same clan. I think I will now rewatch 'Recreation' from WCA to see this character.

I also noticed on the map of the universe that Kulrag is a star system. Any info on this star system and it's planets? I'm also curious as to how the Kilrathi society functioned- did all the males join the military? If so, who did the work? Slaves obviously did much of it, but someone has to oversee them and watch over the business side of things. I assume agriculture wasn't big business since Kilrathi aren't leaf eaters, though they would still feed livestock and slaves. I wonder what types of businesses/organizations Kilrathi would have. I would also like to know these things for writing the fan fiction story.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I thought I might include Drak as a character either related to mine or at least as a notable warrior in his same clan. I think I will now rewatch 'Recreation' from WCA to see this character.

He only appears for a moment -- he's the captain of the Kilrathi carrier which arrives at Oasis.

I also noticed on the map of the universe that Kulrag is a star system. Any info on this star system and it's planets?

No... pretty much any clan will have a system (or other location) from which it gets its name. I don't think it appears anywhere else.

I'm also curious as to how the Kilrathi society functioned- did all the males join the military? If so, who did the work? Slaves obviously did much of it, but someone has to oversee them and watch over the business side of things. I assume agriculture wasn't big business since Kilrathi aren't leaf eaters, though they would still feed livestock and slaves. I wonder what types of businesses/organizations Kilrathi would have. I would also like to know these things for writing the fan fiction story.

Most of this hasn't been developed -- but we do see Kilathi who aren't in the militay... there's a Kilrathi scientist in the Academy manual, a Kilrathi ambassador in Fleet Action, a Kilrathi arms merchant and smugglers in Action Stations, etc.

 

[McGruff]

Drak nar Kulrag (nar is always lower case) was commander of the Naoukeric, a Kilrathi carrier destroyed at Oasis in 2654. He was apparently searching for the same 'sphere' as the Warrior King (in the WCA Episode Recreation).

Ok, here's one for you. If the Academy episode with the Warrior King is considered WC canon, and the deeds of the Warrior King are part of official WC continuity, then are the events in the other Warrior King crossovers such as Street Fighter and the like part of official Wing Commander history as well, even if they took place on other worlds or on earth long before the time of the Confederation?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Only the Academy episode itself is canon.

 

[McGruff]

But if the Academy episode about the warrior and the orb is canon, why not the backstory explaining the history of the orb - including the magic dragons and everything?

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Drak nar Kulrag (nar is always lower case) was commander of the Naoukeric, a Kilrathi carrier destroyed at Oasis in 2654. He was apparently searching for the same 'sphere' as the Warrior King (in the WCA Episode Recreation).

I just noticed while looking through the CIC Encyclopedia, that this character is not listed. It might be nice to add him.

 

[Shaggy]

Another thing to consider about the age issue is animal years.

Dog years run about 7:1 compared to human years. So when a dog has lived ten human years they've aged equivalent to seventy years. I've also heard than Chimpanzees, our closest likely evolutionary link, age about 1:1 with humans.

So perhaps if the Kilrathi were evolved from common house cats they would retain the differential aging ratio. Then at 4 Kilrathi years old Hobbes would maturity wise be equal to 32.

Then there's also the base eight counting they use to figure in Kilrathi year reckoning.

P.S. I know the Kilrathi aren't descended from house cats, it's merely and example unworthy of ridicule or goofy jokes.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

But if the Academy episode about the warrior and the orb is canon, why not the backstory explaining the history of the orb - including the magic dragons and everything?

The idea that things are and are not canon isn't some arbitrary chest beating contest for sci fi geeks -- it's so that writers involved in a shared universe know what material their predecessors have generated that they need to work from. Episodes of Street Fighter and Savage Dragon don't fit into this category in any way, shape or form (any more than future Wing Commander writers would need to know about Ultima or System Shock or any other Origin game that has WC referenes in it).

The fact that there was a secret "crossover" is amazingly interesting (and you have most likely seen it because of me), but it has nothing to do with Wing Commander continuity.

I just noticed while looking through the CIC Encyclopedia, that this character is not listed. It might be nice to add him.

The Encycloedia is missing a whole lot... it's unlikely that such a reference will be added before there's a complete overhaul.

Dog years run about 7:1 compared to human years. So when a dog has lived ten human years they've aged equivalent to seventy years. I've also heard than Chimpanzees, our closest likely evolutionary link, age about 1:1 with humans.

Well, the problem here is that Kilrathi don't *age* quickly, they simply mature quickly -- they live about as long as present-day humans do.

 

[Ijuin]

Apparently the Kilrathi are able to give their youth sufficient education to serve as officers by the age of six or eight. While I doubt that their breadth of education would be as great as that of Confed officers, they would have to have a certain literacy level and know basic history, science, and enough engineering to understand what each kind of failure in combat means vis a vis flight/combat performance. All this says that Kilrathi can probably absorb classroom teaching something like twice as fast as humans, even if they are not inherently more intelligent.

 

[HammerHead]

Apparently the Kilrathi are able to give their youth sufficient education to serve as officers by the age of six or eight. While I doubt that their breadth of education would be as great as that of Confed officers, they would have to have a certain literacy level and know basic history, science, and enough engineering to understand what each kind of failure in combat means vis a vis flight/combat performance. All this says that Kilrathi can probably absorb classroom teaching something like twice as fast as humans, even if they are not inherently more intelligent.

I'd say it's a lot less about education then you'd think - if your strong enough to kill your officer, and anyone else who'll try to kill you after you kill the officer, and have the necessary charisma to lead the crew instead the officer you killed - then you are a Kilrathi Officers material.

 

[McGruff]

The idea that things are and are not canon isn't some arbitrary chest beating contest for sci fi geeks -- it's so that writers involved in a shared universe know what material their predecessors have generated that they need to work from. Episodes of Street Fighter and Savage Dragon don't fit into this category in any way, shape or form (any more than future Wing Commander writers would need to know about Ultima or System Shock or any other Origin game that has WC referenes in it).

The fact that there was a secret "crossover" is amazingly interesting (and you have most likely seen it because of me), but it has nothing to do with Wing Commander continuity.

I see what you're saying, and I'm not going to argue the point any more than this because I don't want to consider the other cartoons WC canon much the same way that I don't want to consider the movie WC canon. Nonetheless, you have many times made the point that we as fans don't get to pick and choose what is official and what is not - meaning that I have to begrudgingly accept the movie events as 'official'.

Yes, the other Warrior King shows (and yes, I know of them from the CIC) are silly and really shouldn't be part of the Wing Commander universe, but they do contain the same character on the same quest. Wouldn't disregarding them be like saying that 'Frasier' and 'Cheers', or 'All In the Family' and 'The Jeffersons' don't exist in the same storyline?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I see what you're saying, and I'm not going to argue the point any more than this because I don't want to consider the other cartoons WC canon much the same way that I don't want to consider the movie WC canon. Nonetheless, you have many times made the point that we as fans don't get to pick and choose what is official and what is not - meaning that I have to begrudgingly accept the movie events as 'official'.

Yes, the other Warrior King shows (and yes, I know of them from the CIC) are silly and really shouldn't be part of the Wing Commander universe, but they do contain the same character on the same quest. Wouldn't disregarding them be like saying that 'Frasier' and 'Cheers', or 'All In the Family' and 'The Jeffersons' don't exist in the same storyline?

I'm not arguing some sort of ideal here, I am simply answering your question in direct fact - no, the powers that be do not consider it. There is no reason that this - or anything relating to what is and is not "canon" - should matter to you.

You do not have to 'begrudgingly accept' anything at all, because you simply don't matter in this sense... the entire point is *only* to define what is and is not considered by future Wing Commander stories. If you hate the movie and think that pretending it doesn't exist is intelligent, more power to you - but don't be offended when some future game references it. Similarly, if you love the Bloodfang showing up in Ultima VII or the Warrior King showing up on Street Fighter or the events of Standoff, then by all means enjoy these things. Not being "canon" doesn't change anything about you.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

To approach this from the more "academic" standpoint that you seem to desire: no, crossovers do not generally 'merge' the canon of their respective franchises for several reasons. Namely, it is needlessly complex and inherently in opposition to the concept of a set canon in the first place.

The essential purpose of a canon is to create a cohesive whole... not to form as large a universe as possible. The idea of tying your stories to those owned by (and expanded by) a completely separate entity makes the basic goal impossible. Do you honestly believe that Electronic Arts, Acclaim, Capcom and Image Comics have any desire to coordinate all their future stories based on a completely unofficial non-tie-in? Of course not.

In a crossover, any crossover, you consider only your part of the story (if that). Future Star Trek novels may reference having met the X-Men... but they wll never conform to the events of some comic book series... Pocket Books has neither the legal right nor the creative impetus to do this. ER might call back Susan Lewis visiting Third Watch... but they won't touch the other show's characters or storylines.

The examples you gave are not valid examples because they are not crossovers - they're spinoffs... Frasier is Privateer to Cheers' Wing Commander. They were developed by the same creative team, owned by the same right holders and developed from a single starting point.

The Warrior King isn't even at the level of an official crossover, though - it's an elaborate in-joke. It was not sponsored or advertised by anyone -- it was a fun project worked out between the four companies' TV teams. It wasn't even especially coordinated -- there's no real continuity to his 'quest' in the first place.

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Thanks to everyone who helped with Wing Commander Universe questions! Exceptional kudos to you Loaf for an excellent job as usual on the research and to you Quarto for the ages of Kilrathi warriors. I will probably have many more questions if I keep up this fanfic. I've never been forced to learn the various intricacies of the Wing Commander world like I have lately. If you want to see the fruits of those labors, you can scroll down to Ch. 2 of the 'Jaws of the Lion' thread in the fanfiction chat forums.

Kilrathi hunts are spoken of throughout the Wing Commander Universe. They are mentioned from the very first game throughout even the novels. They are a rite of passage for a young Kil. The experience learned from these engagements influence how a Kilrathi wages war in space. Ever wonder what it might be like to follow Kilrathi on the hunt? I've tried to stay as true to Wing Commander Canon and Kilrathi psychology as possible to deliver as true a picture as possible.

If anyone feels like checking it out, of course I always like encouragement, but I'm also really open to corrections and constructive advice. Particularly as it pertains to coherency within the WC universe.

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Ok, here's one for you. If the Academy episode with the Warrior King is considered WC canon, and the deeds of the Warrior King are part of official WC continuity, then are the events in the other Warrior King crossovers such as Street Fighter and the like part of official Wing Commander history as well, even if they took place on other worlds or on earth long before the time of the Confederation?

I can catch your uneasiness about that story McGruff and I'm uneasy about it too. I wouldn't plan to include much of this story IF I decide to include any of it. I may keep it vague and say a mysterious super weapon on the planet killed members of his Clan when it destroyed their carrier in orbit.