WC1 and WCP killscores

Of course, of course. The kills from the movie or WCATV are not included either. But nevertheless the duration of all Blair games combined is surely longer than Casey's games. And who tells us that Casey did not achieve kills in missions we did not fly, hmm? ;)
But I do not want to be misunderstood: I think that Casey's kills are far to high compared to Blair's. I mean the cats were already inferior to human ships, but now the bugs.... They are mostly target practice.
 
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
And who tells us that Casey did not achieve kills in missions we did not fly, hmm? ;)

Er... the fact that we DO fly all the missions? :)
(because Casey only stars in ONE WC game...)
 
It was not meant seriously. But do we REALLY know we fly every mission? Perhaps we only fly the most interesting or perhaps in the time between WCP and SOPS he kills some fugitives? But, ahh that leads to nothing. It was not meant seriously anyway. :)
 
I seriously doubt that we fly every mission Blair (or Casey for that matter) has been on. I mean, even experienced pilots have to take their turn at patrols, but who wants to play a mission where you fly figure-8s round a capship for a couple of hours :P. We probably get most of the 'combat' missions they fly though.

There is still some serious time missing between games though, particularly between WC2 and WC3. Between 1 and 2 Blair is working for system security or something, so he might get the occasional pirate or stray Kilrathi but nothing much, while between 3 and 4 he is retired, so no kills there (unless you count roadkill on his tractor). Still, between 2 and 3 there is some serious missing time and I'll bet he didn't sit on his ar....yes well, or let the Concordia go down without a fight. So I would bet that Blairs kill score is at least several hundred higher then if you add all the games together.
 
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
I mean the cats were already inferior to human ships, but now the bugs.... They are mostly target practice.

Well, if you look at the spec's, the Kat ships are generally equal or better then the human ships ... so I guess that just makes them worse pilots.

Still, I agree the bugs are far too easy to pop ... especially when every single little piece of those ray/remoras and skates count as a kill.
 
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
Wedge, you cheat? Tsts, I am shocked! :)

Guh, you misunderstood. I did that a long time ago, and used cheats for the purpose of attempting to tally the most kills possible.

The Kats had similar tech to Confed, but presumably had greater numbers because their entire cultural focus was on warfare and conquest. The bugs, on the other hand, clearly have inferior ships for the most part, and make up for this with even greater numbers.
 
We can be quite certain that Blair flew lots and lots more missions than we flew. Take WC2, for example. The game takes two years, and Blair flies 32 missions? I don't think the Space Force pays him to sit around on his butt ;). In fact, note that Blair is flying a patrol while Angel's debriefing Jazz (when he pulls a gun on her). However, I think it would be fair to assume that he doesn't encounter all that much on those missions; it may well be that we just fly all the missions where Blair encounters Kilrathi. But of course, he does make some additional kills between games.
 
Originally posted by AzraeL
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
I mean the cats were already inferior to human ships, but now the bugs.... They are mostly target practice.

Well, if you look at the spec's, the Kat ships are generally equal or better then the human ships ... so I guess that just makes them worse pilots.

Still, I agree the bugs are far too easy to pop ... especially when every single little piece of those ray/remoras and skates count as a kill.

Give me the specs of one Kilrathi fighter that is superior to his Confed euivalent (not counting Wc1, they were more or less equal, the cats having more armor and shield but being slow). In WC2/WC3 there is no Kilrathi fighter that equals a terran. In Armada only the Jrathek and the Shok'lar can be counted as equal to their Terran equivalents.
 
Well, the Devil Ray was QUITE good.....


Considering the Bug fighters are so crap, they do manage to get their share of kills. Have Confed pilots flying skills decreased in peacetime or are they just overrun by lots of little shit spacecraft?
 
There is no Kilrathi fighter that is have better stats that its ConFed equivalent, both bloodfangs were similar to its conterparts (WC II-Sabre, WC III-Excalibur).
The Paktahn bomber is a more capable bomber that its conterpart (Longbow) since it have better torpedo hardpoints 2x3 but it have less missile hardpoints 2x3, 2x4 (3FF/3FF/4FF/4FF) and 2 more plasma guns (it only lose 2 FF missiles but it gain 2 more torpedos) its faster ( max velocity 340 kps, acceleration 100 k/s^2 , max Afterburner velocity 600 kps ) and more minble (max Y/P/R 35/40/35 deg/s) but its shields and armor stats are lower (Front Shield 320 cm ,Rear Shield 320 cm, Front Armor 180 cm, Rear Armor 140 cm, Right/Left Armor 180 cm)
 
Originally posted by Chameleon102
Well, the Devil Ray was QUITE good.....

Considering the Bug fighters are so crap, they do manage to get their share of kills. Have Confed pilots flying skills decreased in peacetime or are they just overrun by lots of little shit spacecraft?
Yes, the Devil Ray is the only bug ship that equals the Vampire but there are quite few of them. And yes, Confed is overun by lots of little shit spacecraft. Still I do not know how the bugs can pose a threat to Confed ships.

And Dragon: As far as I recall the Bloodfangs were significantly weaker armed than their counterparts. WC2: 2 Particle Cannons (against the Sabre's 2 Particles and 2 Mass drivers) WC3: 2 Tachyon, 2 Plasma (Excalibur: 4 Tachyon and 2 Reaper). And the Paktahn has such bad acceleration (ok, that is not so important) and who needs 6 torpedoes? And its afterburner speeed is also less than the Longbow's and that is the one that matters.( The difference between 320 and 340 is insignificant, either one is slow.)
But after all, you agree with me that Kilrathi fighters are inferior to their Confed counterparts, so you do not hear me complain :)
 
Probably the only bug fighter that could have given the bugs a real chance against Confed would have been the Devil Ray, had they deployed vast numbers of them. The Devil Ray can yaw 180 quicker than a Vampire, but the Vampire matches all other aspects of the Devil Ray. A very close close match.

RFBurns
 
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
Give me the specs of one Kilrathi fighter that is superior to his Confed euivalent (not counting Wc1, they were more or less equal, the cats having more armor and shield but being slow). In WC2/WC3 there is no Kilrathi fighter that equals a terran. In Armada only the Jrathek and the Shok'lar can be counted as equal to their Terran equivalents. [/B]

Okay. How about ...
T-Bolt Vaktoth Sorthak
Speed 380 410 400
Aft. 1000 900 950
Y/P/R 50/50/50 45/50/45 65/55/55
Guns 585 639 525
Missiles 2x3 2x4 2x4
F/R Shield 250/250 250/250 250/400
F/R/S Armor 120/120/100 130/120/130 180/180/180
Jump No Yes

The Vaktoth has better weapons, is faster in normal flight, has superior armor AND can jump. It is slightly less manouvreable.


Longbow Paktahn
Speed 320 340
Aft. 700 600
Y/P/R 30/40/30 35/40/35
Guns 439 707
Missiles 4x4 2x3,2x4
Torpedos 4 6
F/R Shield 500/500 320/320
F/R/S Armor 300/300/300 180/180/180

Well, the Longbow leads mainly in shields and armor. The Paktahn is more manouvreable and has awesome firepower - great for mowing down corvettes, light capships or any fighter stupid enough to get in its way.


Excalibur Bloodfang
Speed 500 560
Aft. 1300 1400
Y/P/R 70/75/75 70/90/90
Guns 1033 668
Missiles 4x4 3x3
F/R Shield 250/250 250/400
F/R/S Armor 110/110/110 100/100/100

The Bloodfang is significantly faster and more manouvreable then the Excal, and also has better shields. The Excal only leads in firepower (which is admittedly excellent).


The Arrow and Hellcat do have signifcantly better shielding then their Kilrathi equivalents. Still, based mainly on the Bloodfang and Vaktoth, I find it hard to agree that Terran fighters are markedly superior.
 
You have to rely on some sort of superiority. If the enemy is faster, has stronger shields, more armour, is more maneuverable etc. etc. you can quite easily get crushed even if you could out think him. One must rely quite a bit upon the superiority, in one sense, of his fighter. If you're faster, use that. If you have more fire power, use that. Tactics only go so far.

TC
 
Originally posted by AzraeL

Okay. How about ...
T-Bolt Vaktoth Sorthak
Speed 380 410 400
Aft. 1000 900 950
Y/P/R 50/50/50 45/50/45 65/55/55
Guns 585 639 525
Missiles 2x3 2x4 2x4
F/R Shield 250/250 250/250 250/400
F/R/S Armor 120/120/100 130/120/130 180/180/180
Jump No Yes

The Vaktoth has better weapons, is faster in normal flight, has superior armor AND can jump. It is slightly less manouvreable.
Where did you get those stats? The WC3 manual clearly states that the Vaktoth flies 380kps, has slightly worse guns than the TBolt and far inferior shield and armor. I think you are comparing the WCP Vaktoth to the WC3 TBolt


Longbow Paktahn
Speed 320 340
Aft. 700 600
Y/P/R 30/40/30 35/40/35
Guns 439 707
Missiles 4x4 2x3,2x4
Torpedos 4 6
F/R Shield 500/500 320/320
F/R/S Armor 300/300/300 180/180/180

Well, the Longbow leads mainly in shields and armor. The Paktahn is more manouvreable and has awesome firepower - great for mowing down corvettes, light capships or any fighter stupid enough to get in its way.
But the Paktahn's guns are so widespread that hitting a fighter is quite difficult.

Excalibur Bloodfang
Speed 500 560
Aft. 1300 1400
Y/P/R 70/75/75 70/90/90
Guns 1033 668
Missiles 4x4 3x3
F/R Shield 250/250 250/400
F/R/S Armor 110/110/110 100/100/100

The Bloodfang is significantly faster and more manouvreable then the Excal, and also has better shields. The Excal only leads in firepower (which is admittedly excellent).

The Arrow and Hellcat do have signifcantly better shielding then their Kilrathi equivalents. Still, based mainly on the Bloodfang and Vaktoth, I find it hard to agree that Terran fighters are markedly superior.

Problem is: The Bloodfang is the imperial fighter for prince Thrakhath and not for the front line whereas the Excalibur is a mass product. (We encounter a lot of Excals in Wc4 and WCP)
 
Don't forget that those Excaliburs were 'toned down' for economic reasons. Besides, paper stats only go so far in determining the winner in a dogfight.
 
Proper Vaktoth Stats...

(WC3)
Speed: 380 kps
Aft: 950 kps
Y/P/R: 45/55/45 dps
Guns: 264 (+70 rear)
Missiles: 2x4
Shields: 200 cm each
Fore/Art Armor: 100 cm
Side Armor: 100 cm
Jump: Yes

(WCP)
Speed: 420 (559 max)
Aft: 1100
Y/P/R: 75/55/75
Guns: 214 (+38 rear)
Missiles: (2x4) or (1x4 + 1x2 torp)
Shields: 260 cm each
Fore/Aft Armor: 130/120 cm
Side Armor: 130 cm
Jump: Yes
 
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