Space sim games (SW Episode II Spoilers)

[junior]

Originally posted by Frosty
So while you're right that Palpatine will try to purge the Jedi, your perspective is skewed. Palpatine doesn't represent the Republic, the Jedi do, and the Clones, which serve them now, will become the enemy.

I would argue that its YOUR perspective that's skewed. After all, the Jedi are merely the guardians of order in the Republic (and sometimes run errands for the Chancellor, as seen in Episode 1). Their power is strictly limited to the influence that they can exert on the lawmakers of the Republic (and I suspect they generally don't use mind tricks for that), and while they apparently have a great deal of respect and standing within the Republic, their role seems to be more or less limited to an 'advisory' basis.
Its Palpatine who leads the Republic, not the Jedi. The word of the Jedi council has a great deal of pull with many members of the Republic, but political power only rests with the Jedi insofar as the members of the Senate choose to heed the advice of the Jedi.

At any rate, I imagine that we can agree to disagree.

 

[LeHah]

Originally posted by Frosty
OK, I get what you're saying, but here's the problem:

Palpatine, right now, is seen by the Senate and the Jedi, the Republic as a whole, really, as the Supreme Chancellor, not the Emporer, and the formation of the Empire isn't complete.

In order to convert the Republic, he has to do things like declare martial law and send garrison forces to the many worlds of the Republic to subdue would-be resistance.

Arguably, hasn't he done this already? He's been granted emergency powers by the Senate due to the Dooku movement which is pulling thousands of planets away from the Republic. To prevent this, which is damn weird logic, he's decided to fight to keep systems in the Republic (Wouldn't you think if a war was raged over/on your planet, you'd want to leave the Republic even more?).

In any case, I wonder what we saw at the end of the movie? Was it just the first offical fleet movement or a particular attack?

When Yoda said that that Clone Wars had begun, he meant that the Clones would fight the separatists and the Trade Federation. Once they've obliterated that enemy, and they will easily do so, since Palpatine had designed them to be an excuse, rather than a true threat, from the beginning, they'll begin to consolidate Palpatine's new Empire. The Jedi will have to defend the Republic from being subverted, and of course they will ultimately fail.

Good idea and it sounds good. But Lucas has pulled stuff out of nowhere before, like he did with Jango's interaction with Cloners in Episode 2. I expected Lucas to copy The Legend Of Lancelot with Episode 2 & 3: Gweneviere was "destined to love" Lancelot but Arthur married her, despite Merlin's warnings. Lancelot went out of his mind and ran off and lived in the woods. I was thinking Lucas was going to transpose Gweneviere with Amidala, Lancelot with Anakin and Arthur with Obi-Wan (though Obi-Wan wouldn't marry Amidala, she would fall for him and Anakin would lose it).

So while you're right that Palpatine will try to purge the Jedi, your perspective is skewed. Palpatine doesn't represent the Republic, the Jedi do, and the Clones, which serve them now, will become the enemy.

The Jedi, in the end, represents what the Old Republic stands for against the New Order that Palpatine creates. Agreed.

 

[Wedge009]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Based on how they're described by Dex, cloning seems to be something more than one race posseses.

Dex?

Originally posted by LeHah
...I think that [Christensen] was pretty bland at best.

I thought the fact that he could say some of those corny lines in the first half without grimacing is pretty impressive in itself.

Originally posted by LeHah
And I can't tell you how much I loved those exposition shots of Jedi posing in the Arena. Again. And again. And again. And again.

Assuming that was being sarcastic, I liked seeing all those non-central-character Jedi.

Originally posted by LeHah
I thought [Jar Jar] took second place in annoyance to Jake Lloyd...

You expect better acting from a kid?

Originally posted by LeHah
Episode 2's Arena battle sequence would've been pretty darn good if it wasn't for the constant and unnessessary one-liners by C-3PO.

I agree, I think C-3PO and R2-D2 took over from Jar Jar in the 'comic' department, but it wasn't that bad.

Originally posted by LeHah
...the most powerful Jedi resorting to a lightsaber... neither seems right, or seems possible once you know the characters.

Who's to say what your idea of Yoda is more 'right' than Lucas's? And "possible"? You should know anything is possible with the Force.

Originally posted by Frosty
That's from an entirely different context...

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Frosty
There we have it, ladies and gents, these movies were doomed in LeHah's mind before they were ever conceived, so you're welcome to completely ignore his agitated ramblings from here out.

Oh, that's a relief.

Originally posted by junior
Zahn uses Spaarti to refer to the clone cylinders, and I remember him using the term 'Clone Masters' at one point to refer to the aggressors in the Clone Wars. I don't remember if he said 'Spaarti Clone Masters', but the inference was definitely there.

It may be a while since I read them, but I don't recall any such reference...

Originally posted by junior
The big problem is that everyone's always believed that the Clone Wars were about the Jedi fighting off a group of clones that attacked the Republic (and Zahn connects this with the 'clone masters', who are presumably the Spaarti). The problem is, it appears that everyone was wrong. While this may indeed have happened in the past, it isn't the Clone Wars that everyone is familiar with.

And who says this is a bad thing? ;-)

Originally posted by Naféasonto
I kind of thought it dumb that Anakin's double lightsaber fight was 5 seconds...

Dooku also uses two lightsabres against Yoda, but that - among several others - got cut. See here for more. Pic 1 Pic 2

Originally posted by Naféasonto
Wait until Star Wars Episode 3. The most evil of the trilogy, I can't wait to hear the music when (I will not mention names as not to spoil it), fight.

Anything you may have heard is likely to be pure speculation, I wouldn't bank on anything specific.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* Jar Jar's introduction. Did you notice that Jar Jar is brought on to the screen in a way specifically made so the audience could *not* boo him?

I liked Jar Jar's role in Episode II (he didn't even bother me in I), even if it was only to make Palpatine effective Emperor.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* The love story! Complain all you want about how sappy it was and how bad the lines are...

Once Padmé caved in (which, admittedly, was a bit sad - "we're going to die, oh BTW, I love you"), I thought it was rather sweet. [Actually, I think things improved once they decided "not to destroy" each others lives.]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* Everything looked *better*. The ships were all awesome looking, the locations were very very well done and the CGI characters no longer look obviously CGI'd.

It's always getting better, but I still noticed Yoda didn't have that plasticky puppet look. I also didn't like the bit at the start when the Naboo ship goes through the clouds of Coruscant (with regards to CGI realism), but it is getting better, and you quickly forget this once the heavy action starts!

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* Yoda's fight. Yeah, it was cool, whatever... but the whole picking up the cane afterwards seemed very appropriate (albeit layed on a bit thick).

...and going back to his non-Force-boosted state. That was funny.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* The prequels are starting to gel with the later movies. There was a very high "So that's why..." and "So this is what they mean when..." factor coming out of the movie.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
* Modern political commentary. The movies seem to be creeping slowly towards this... and that's *not* what Star Wars should be!

I thought they were just making a reference to what the galaxy was heading to - imperial dictatorship.

Originally posted by junior
The Jedi are ALL killed, except Obi-Wan and Yoda (people are going to be very upset when Mace Windu dies)

Samuel L Jackson made a point in an interview of wanting to die on-screen, he said something like "that's what movies are about, dying great!" I laughed so much over that.

Originally posted by junior
...the age-old question of what exactly strormtroopers are is finally answered (droids? clones? regular humans? probably the latter, but I've seen debates over all three).

Debate? I'm pretty sure they're humans, normal or otherwise, I don't think there's much terror to be had from a stormtrooper.

Originally posted by junior
Bail Organa (guy with the goatee who's never identified in the movie - on the balcony with Palpatine at the end)

The one who's wearing something out of the Tudor era? Is that him?

Originally posted by LeHah
To prevent this, which is damn weird logic, he's decided to fight to keep systems in the Republic (Wouldn't you think if a war was raged over/on your planet, you'd want to leave the Republic even more?).

It struck me as odd as well.

Originally posted by LeHah
I was thinking Lucas was going to transpose Gweneviere with Amidala, Lancelot with Anakin and Arthur with Obi-Wan (though Obi-Wan wouldn't marry Amidala, she would fall for him and Anakin would lose it).

Whoa, that's really weird.

Oh, and everyone: please stop arguing over what is and isn't going to happen in Episode III. It hasn't happened yet.

 

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Wedge009
I thought the fact that he could say some of those corny lines in the first half without grimacing is pretty impressive in itself.

Christensen acting was good, his role was a young man, a little cornish, a little silly without experience with women.

Originally posted by Wedge009

I liked seeing all those non-central-character Jedi.

KIT FISTO RULEZZZ, LONG LIVE THE RASTA JEDI !

Originally posted by Wedge009
Anything you may have heard is likely to be pure speculation, I wouldn't bank on anything specific.

It´s obvious the Kenobi Vs Skywalker confrontation

Originally posted by Wedge009
The one who's wearing something out of the Tudor era? Is that him?

Yes, he is Bail Organa

 

[Frosty]

Cornish...

Originally posted by Ghost
Christensen acting was good, his role was a young man, a little cornish, a little silly without experience with women.

 

[Wedge009]

Originally posted by Ghost
It´s obvious the Kenobi Vs Skywalker confrontation

He may have been referring to something else... but we don't even know if they actually duke it out in Episode III. I'm content to wait for another three years.

 

[Frosty]

Originally posted by Wedge009
He may have been referring to something else... but we don't even know if they actually duke it out in Episode III.

I'm almost 100% certain that if Obi-Wan's padawan goes flippin' Dark-Side on him, he'll try to put his ass in line.

 

[Wedge009]

How certain are you of your level of certainty?

I'm still happy to wait and see.

 

[Mav23]

I sure do hope that Obi-Wan and Anakin fight. The whole "calling the old man out" thing just appeals to me. Even though Anakin would obviously lose. I just think it would be one of those "great movie moments".

 

[Skyfire]

Having not read this thread, I'll just interject for Mav. Yes, they do fight-I believe in Ep. 3. (I have about 5 SW nuts around here, and they've already given away most of the stuff for the other Ep.)

 

[Wedge009]

Silly, Obi-Wan and Anakin fight... in Episode IV.

Anyway, you say it's 'obvious' that Anakin would lose. In what way? If Anakin truly lost, wouldn't the Jedi try to straighten him out, or at least prevent him from going on his happy Dark Sith way? I suspect it would end up in a draw, in the same way the duel between Yoda and Dooku was.

 

[Frosty]

Originally posted by Wedge009
Anyway, you say it's 'obvious' that Anakin would lose. In what way? If Anakin truly lost, wouldn't the Jedi try to straighten him out, or at least prevent him from going on his happy Dark Sith way?

Well the way I've heard it told, Obi-Wan is supposed to kick the shit ot of Anakin, and, thinking he's killed him, runs away. But really, Anakin is still alive, and then goes completely dark-side.

 

[Wedge009]

Where did you hear this from? I'm wondering why Obi-Wan would do such a thing if there's still hope of saving him.

 

[Frosty]

One doesn't always intend to do what one does. I've tripped down the stairs a couple times, but that doesn't mean I tried to. The same goes for Obi-Wan thinking he's killed Anakin.

They will be placed in a position where they have to fight each other, and we can assume that since Obi-Wan isn't dead in A New Hope, he must win this battle.

Now, if he fought Anakin "at the edge of a molten pit," I think the explanation goes (let's say in an industrial complex of some nature,) and kicked him in, my guess is Obi-Wan would think he'd killed the kid, and he'd probably decide to leave in the interests of, y'know, not being killed by ten-thousant clones.

Then Anakin manages to escape with his life, but lacking much of his body, blah blah, Dark powers, blah blah blah, Emporer Palpatine, blah blah, Sith Apprentice. Catch my drift?

 

[Ghost]

Maybe the industrial complex that appears at the end of EP2 (Dooku with Sidious)?

 

[junior]

Originally posted by LeHah


Arguably, hasn't he done this already? He's been granted emergency powers by the Senate due to the Dooku movement which is pulling thousands of planets away from the Republic. To prevent this, which is damn weird logic, he's decided to fight to keep systems in the Republic (Wouldn't you think if a war was raged over/on your planet, you'd want to leave the Republic even more?).

That's Padme's logic when she states her position against the formation of a Republic army.
Unfortunately, the sizable military that the seperatist movement puts together forces the issue. If your opponent doesn't have any army at all, then the only reason to put an army of that size together is to wage war on your opponent.
As far as fighting on/over systems is concerned - that's typically the way that most civil wars work (although none to date have involved other star systems...). If its being fought in or around your system, then its to preserve your viewpoints, and its the other side that's at fault. So if any fighting did take place in systems that didn't want to secede, it would be the fault of the secessionist forces that invaded the system.
Incidentally, does anyone else get the idea that Palpatine doesn't necessarily want Padme killed? Chances are he's fully aware of who is behind it all, and yet his decisions seem firmly based around the principle of keeping her alive (albeit out of the voting chambers). Its his suggestion to get the Jedi involved, and when the threat continues, its his suggestion to send her into hiding.

 

[junior]

Originally posted by Frosty
One doesn't always intend to do what one does. I've tripped down the stairs a couple times, but that doesn't mean I tried to. The same goes for Obi-Wan thinking he's killed Anakin.

They will be placed in a position where they have to fight each other, and we can assume that since Obi-Wan isn't dead in A New Hope, he must win this battle.

Now, if he fought Anakin "at the edge of a molten pit," I think the explanation goes (let's say in an industrial complex of some nature,) and kicked him in, my guess is Obi-Wan would think he'd killed the kid, and he'd probably decide to leave in the interests of, y'know, not being killed by ten-thousant clones.

Then Anakin manages to escape with his life, but lacking much of his body, blah blah, Dark powers, blah blah blah, Emporer Palpatine, blah blah, Sith Apprentice. Catch my drift?

According to rumors that have been around for years and years (since RotJ if not earlier), Obi-Wan and Vader fought during the Jedi purge, and the fight ended with Vader being knocked into a volcano. That's supposed to be why Vader is mostly machine, and why he needs the built-in life support systems in his suit.
My own guess as to how it all would work out is that Anakin goes up against Dooku, and gets his revenge, but turns (inversion of Luke beating Vader, but not turning). Obi-Wan has figured out who got Padme pregnant, and when he's alerted to Anakin's fall (probably due to Yoda perceiving another force event - similar to the Tusken camp), he warns Padme. They take the kids and split, and while Padme gets clean away, Anakin catches up to Obi-Wan and learns he has a son.
Of course, that's all speculation.

 

[Skyfire]

Actually, your right. He is knocked into a volcano, which makes him become more machine. The only reason he supposedly lives through it, is his strong willpower/his relying on the dark side.

 

[Naféasonto]

Oh well that spoiled Episode 3, doesn't matter the script is everwhere, and it was in a magazine about the 3 prequel movies, I lost it though...

I can't wait to see Obi wan and Anakin fight though, should be a good fight.

Nafé

 

[LeHah]

Originally posted by Skyfire
Actually, your right. He is knocked into a volcano, which makes him become more machine. The only reason he supposedly lives through it, is his strong willpower/his relying on the dark side.

Keep in mind, up until Episode 2, Owen Lars was always refered to as Obi-Wan's brother; it's stated directly on the Decipher Star Wars CCG. Now we know he's actually Anakin's step-brother.

Just because it said "Anakin falls into lava" in one or two books (which, no matter how good they are, are not offical continuity unless they're the movie or, believe it or not, the NPR Radio Dramas), doesn't mean Lucas intends for it to be that way. He'll probably change it.