on transitioning to RF...

W

warlock

Spaceman
having just beat the original campaign, i thought i'd drop in a few thoughts on the transition to the RF campaign, which right now strikes me as a problem.

specifically: there's one heck of a game over feeling after returning to perry post-killing the almighty glowing green egg o' death. you get the victory cutscene, and the dialogue with the admiral is very ride-off-into-the-sunset. i know this is because this *was* the end of the original game, but for the purposes of the remake it's trouble - an unspoiled player may not even continue past this point (as someone once put it, "It's hard to find any purpose in your life after you've saved the entire solar system and earnt a quarter of a million meseta in the process.") and even if they do, they may never end up on jolson to trigger the theft.

plus, there's this boatload of new technology suddenly available the instant you do land on jolson, which also breaks suspension of disbelief. two suggestions:

a) have admiral what's-his-face, as a sign of gratitude, offer you the chance to buy some prototype confed tech - like the gun cooler unit or the thrust enhancer, for example, what exactly depends on how much you have - but for more than you currently have. this provides impetus for the player to go do more missions. then count the number of different planets/bases the player lands on and have the gun theft occur perhaps 5-8 landings later. slowly filter the tech into the game every 9-12 landings or so. (or, even better, track the player's flight hours via the computer clock and introduce the new tech based partly on real-world time. [also on kills or the like so that people didn't simply sit in space overnight])

b) after the admiral's "you're getting a medal" speech, fix the player's ship completely, mark his missions-in-progress (though he shouldn't have any) done, give him a few hundred thousand credits, and show a little cutscene of him departing perry and riding off literally into the sunset... fade to black, fade up on a view of jolson, throw down overtext "pleasure planet jolson. system xxn-1927. six months later..." and go from there.
 
Neat ideas. I wonder if they can all be worked into the engine...

One problem with this, though, is that it takes away the ability to go flying around with your boosted gun blowing up ships in a single shot. While it certanly gets old after a while, I wouldn't want it to end before I was ready.
 
How about to start the count once you've actually bought the neat little thingy from the admiral?
Then the "knowing" player can fly around all he wants...and the story doesn't seem so "broken" apart...

-Fishion
 
JKeefe said:
it takes away the ability to go flying around with your boosted gun blowing up ships in a single shot. While it certanly gets old after a while, I wouldn't want it to end before I was ready.
Click to expand...

i've always felt that that was why the fusion gun was suddenly available. sort of origin's way of saying 'sorry we had the alien gun stolen, but that's the mcguffin that drives this game; here's some nice new guns to make up for it.'


spiritplumber said:
Or have bartenders drop hints that there's something interesting going on at Jolson. That's easy to code in.
Click to expand...

i considered that, except a) we have to get the player interested in first continuing the gameplay and second talking to bartenders (the player might think he's heard it all) and b) that's a little too blatant. it smells like a setup. similarly, we could have admiral whatever asking the player at the end of his speech to look in on jolson because there's been a spate of retro activity there, but that also smells setuppish.

without offering up a big immersion breaking "start righteous fire campaign" button, i'm lost for a *really* good idea.
 
Adm. Terrell: "Well, since you won't accept an officer's commission and you don't care for medals, as a way of thanks here's a nice Confed expense account for Jolson Pleasure Base."
 
Um, the problem:

How the hell does one justify it to the bean-counters? :-P

More seriously, a good idea might be for a Confed fixer to show up after a suitable amount of time, following the player, and offer both that free trip and an (off-camera) mission to look into things at Jolson. Take it and you get "<time> later" cut.
 
Okay, let me just contribute an outline of the problem here. In the original, the game ends with Terrel's speech. When Righteous Fire begins, the story takes off a year later, and one is put into Jolson, even if the player might have chosen to vacation in Helen, or New Detroit. But in the remake we need a time-lapse to happen with, preferably, some player participation.
Problems are,
1) how does the player (preferably) know or suspect that the game will continue?
2) how to keep the player playing, and what can he or she do, that will take long enough time to make it seem plausible that a year went by?
3) how to make the player (preferably) land at Jolson, after said period?

And I say 'preferably' because we could dispense with it having to be Jolson, but it would be preferable to keep the story close to the original, where possible.

Indeed, as an extra problem to consider, I'd throw in that, in the interest of NOT changing either the end of the first part, nor the beginning of RF, it would be fair game to throw any amount of extra stuff inbetween. Simply because RF starts a year later, and nothing is even hinted at what transpired inbetween.

So, without actually proposing anything concrete, I'd say we could just as well come up with a whole little plot, serving as glue. Almost anything. Some Confed stealing the gun right at Perry while Terrel was speaking, and escaping to some unknown base with the help of pirates, who are later kidnapped by kilrathi gypsies, whom you have to trick at a bar in Kilrah. Anything. And the reason for being at Jolson could be that a pirate came out and said "my boss wants to meet you at Jolson" but then it turned out to be a setup.
 
IMO it is preferable to have a slightly discotinous and disconcerting transition into RF than it is to invent some wacky and out-of-place story.
 
The story is akin to that in False Colors, where individual Kilrathi warlords are causing trouble along the frontier in the post-war era. (The game itself doesn't talk directly about the end of the war - but it does mention that reserves are being called back up and that Confed is bringing troops back from the front lines to fight the Retros.)
 
One problem with the original which the remake could correct is the lack of chronological correlation of some of the bartenders' monologues.
 
How about...

* Terrel gives you the little speech.
* You tell him "I'm not cut for the military." and "will get my head checked out".
* You go back to the ship and find the gun is not there.
* After checking around all over the place, you go back to Terrel's office.
* He apologizes profusely, but says that the gun has too much military importance.
* But after some argument he tells you, let me think about it, and I'll send for you when I've decided.
* After a few more missions or landings, you meet Goodin at a bar, who sends you back to Terrel.
* Terrel tells you that their military scientists don't belive they could duplicate the technology, but that whatever they could learn from it is already in their databases. Meaning that for the moment at least, there will only be one gun of the kind. And he says that they've decided they need to make use of it, even before a way of duplicating it can be found. So he offers you a deal: Join the military, and you'll get to use your gun, and keep it afterwards.
* You agree, and now the game becomes more Wing Commander-ish.
* It could last say 20 to 40 missions against the Kilrathy, with the last few making major inroads into Kilrathi territory, and achieving very strategic victories.
* The Kilrathi end up signing a temporary truce, and you get released from military duty, and are given an all expenses paid vacation in Jolson, along with the extra mission of escorting other military brass going there for a celebration...
 
the problem there is i doubt the admiral is the type to ask when he suspects the answer will be no. unlike before, he doesn't have the "mutual benefit" card to play.

he could just take the gun, and when the main character shows up to ask about it, goodin meets him and basically tells him, "we can do this two ways. the easy way is you loan us the gun for awhile and we'll call you when we're done. we'll even give you a pair of prototype fusion cannons to play with."

"what's the hard way?"

"the hard way is we arrest you on charges of piracy, drugrunning, smuggling, aiding convicted felons, and possibly high treason, confiscate your ship and take the gun anyway."

"well, when you put it that way..."

"i thought so."

oh, and as far as a temporary truce: it'd be more like the end of the whole war, given when privateer is set.
 
My whole idea was for Privateer to have no choice but to JOIN the military. That way there'd be a WC style stint in the military before RF. If as you say, this is the the end of the war, so much the better! Then perhaps this WC stint should be the shortest but greatest of all of WC, where at the end you'd get to pilot a Paradigm or something even larger, and you have to command the flyers you launch from your bay, and do so wisely, ordering them back when they are losing their shields; and re-launching them, when the Paradigm starts losing its own, and so on.

It could also be that Terrel, to sweeten the deal, promises you a refurbished Paradigm at the end of the war, subject to decomissioning schedules. So, at the end of RF, you might get delivery of the promised Paradigm. And then the ability to access the Vega sector is opened, and you can travel to Sol, if you want... ;-)
 
In other words, Terrel doesn't just want your gun, he wants YOU to use it. He, or Goodin, might say,
"We can do this the hard way, or the easy way:
The easy way is you get the gun back but join our forces against the Kilrathi. The hard way is you lose your gun AND your freedom."
And then you could say, "What about I just lease you the gun for a few months?"
And the she says,
"And lose that gun to the Kilrathi? We want the best pilot in Gemini, to go with it. I'll tell you what: The admiral is considering paying you as much as several hundred thousand credits per mission. Though not in hard money, necessarily. He'd consider letting you have a decommisioned capital ship, at the end of the war; --decomissioning schedule notwithstanding; but in mint condition. You'll also get to keep your current ship, and will be able to fly either one. AND you'll even get to keep the Steltek gun. Deal?"
 
Actually, the order of the offers in the deal should be reversed: First she promises payment in the form of a ship, then promises you'll get to keep your gun, and in the end adds the emotional punch line, of them wanting the best pilot to be the one using that gun.
 
Not likely. WC, the mil is like it was in WW2.

They prefer enlistments, but you could always be drafted...
 
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