I Must Admit

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heavy

Spaceman
I must admit:
I have never played Wing Commander Secret Ops before i played Standoff

In my opiniom, Prophecy and Secret Ops have the worst space ships designs i have ever seen. Where have gone all the beautiful ships from WC3/4 and Privateer 2 ????
i'm sorry for the designer, but the nephilim ships design just suck. Maybe the Barracuda is the worst ship ever... Is Prophecy an underwater simulator ????

But now i enjoy the Prophecy engine with the AWESOME Standoff mod.
Now i can play in full 3d high res with the classics wing commander ships.

I still hate Prophecy and Secret Ops, but i can't wait for the next Standoff episode.

I must admit:
I hate Prophecy but i LOVE Standoff
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Is Prophecy an 'underwater simulator'? YES! That's *exactly* what the artwork is going for - it's hard to believe it'd go so far over someones head. Prophecy's Nephilim ships are perfect.

The entire dynamic is well bred -- it's Prophecy alone that came up with something other than both sides having their own equivalent of a light fighter, a medium fighter, a heavy fighter and a bomber. The Nephilim are *alien*! With cool weird ships with mysterious roles.

It's this brilliant mash of organic designs that actually go so far as to *act* organic -- welding themselves together to form big pulsating guns, flying around in defensive packs, having different colors to mark how poisonous they are... it's neat and absolutely inspired stuff that is a heck of a lot more clever than churning out another set of generic alien spaceships.

Just look at these Stingrays:

prophecy6.jpg


Those are *great*! Prophecy relied on the ships themselves to give the background for the alien race... just like Wing Commander I did with the Kilrathi -- and it worked great. They're a wonderful mystery -- are they naturally grown or are they designed this way on purpose? Do the glowing parts mean they're related to the Steltek somehow? We still debate this stuff almost a decade later.

Now, that aside, here's why you're probably a troll:

In my opiniom, Prophecy and Secret Ops have the worst space ships designs i have ever seen. Where have gone all the beautiful ships from WC3/4 and Privateer 2 ????

... several of them are in Prophecy and Secret Ops -- did you miss the Dralthi, the Vaktoth, the Vesuvius, the Excalibur, the Thunderbolt and several space stations? So, there's the question... did you not actually play Prophecy, or did the old designs blend in so seamlessly that you're just wrong without trying?

And poor Standoff, that you'd drag them into this crap -- they didn't design any ships... they're intentionally bringing back ships from earlier games... they're to be lauded for many things, but some grand amount of original ship design certainly isn't one of them.
 
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MartySheen

Rear Admiral
I agree with the points Loaf makes here but not his attitude.

It's not necessary to be callous and arrogant towards someone who is merely expressing their opinion.

The guy doesn't like prophecy - no need to shoot him for it.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The kid clearly came here to stir up a fight. You should be offended by how poorly he expressed his opinion, not how little interest I had in his feelings.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
MartySheen said:
I agree with the points Loaf makes here but not his attitude.

It's not necessary to be callous and arrogant towards someone who is merely expressing their opinion.

This comment always seems pretty hypocritical. How in the world does someone get to post an insubstantiated rant about how much a Wing Commander game sucks.. and then a Wing Commander fan gets called out for showing with specific examples how silly the first post is?

MartySheen said:
The guy doesn't like prophecy - no need to shoot him for it.

Except that's not what's going on. Lots of people don't like Prophecy, but they don't make a big outspoken deal of it with flimsy junk to back it up. The original post is a violation of CIC Forums Rule #2. Note that the forum rules say nothing about anyone having to like anything in the Wing Commander series.
 

heavy

Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
Now, that aside, here's why you're probably a troll:


I think that i have not insulted anyone. I just said that i hate Prophecy. I didn't know that to hate some ships designs is a reason to be insulted.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I think that i have not insulted anyone. I just said that i hate Prophecy. I didn't know that to hate some ships designs is a reason to be insulted.

It's certainly a reason to be corrected.

You didn't make a very interesting point - you didn't back up anything you said, you didn't explain your reasons... all you posted was some bland 'I hate something you guys like! Aren't I special?' announcement.
 

MartySheen

Rear Admiral
ChrisReid said:
Except that's not what's going on. Lots of people don't like Prophecy, but they don't make a big outspoken deal of it with flimsy junk to back it up. The original post is a violation of CIC Forums Rule #2. Note that the forum rules say nothing about anyone having to like anything in the Wing Commander series.

All the guy said is that doesn't like the style of the ships in prophecy. It seems to me, that you are the ones making a 'big outspoken deal' of it. It actually sounds like your annoyed because he said he didn't like something wing commander related.

As i said, I think loaf is absolutely right with the points he made about the ships but i just dont like the unpleasant way that heavys comment was dealt with.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I think he phrased his feelings well beyond graphics -- he says quite plainly "I hate Prophecy but i LOVE Standoff" (which is a darned odd statement to make, since Standoff wouldn't exist without Prophecy).

If anything, I think my reply is too much for the source material -- look at it, showing a nice picture, explaining why I think Prophecy's graphics are great, etc.. the original post did nothing of the sort -- no rhyme, no reason. He's the guy you should be attacking.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
MartySheen said:
i just dont like the unpleasant way that heavys comment was dealt with.

How is justifying one's arguement with facts and evidence make it unplesant?
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
LeHah said:
How is justifying one's arguement with facts and evidence make it unplesant?

Because it didn't have a cheap smiley tagged on the end, which on the internet oozes hate.
 

heavy

Spaceman
LeHah said:
How is justifying one's arguement with facts and evidence make it unplesant?

Is "TROLL" an arguement ???? I don't like to be called "TROLL" just for my point of view and taste

WORST SHIP EVER DESIGNED:



I have ALL the videogames made for the PC until 2000. My father was a videogames reviewer. I have seen ALL the ships from ALL the games. I have also a BIG Sci-fi comics and books collection (thousands, i'm not a kid, i'm 39). ) and i think that the BARRACUDA is the worst ship ever designed.
Is correct to say my point of view ???

BIO TECH ??? A fish at space is biotech ???
If you like BIO-TECH check some art by GIGER. That's BIOTECH.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Is "TROLL" an arguement ???? I don't like to be called "TROLL" just for my point of view and taste

Yes, it was an argument. You'll notice that I specified exactly *why* I thought you were a troll after that statement. That's how argument works.

I have ALL the videogames made for the PC until 2000. My father was a videogames reviewer. I have seen ALL the ships from ALL the games. I have also a BIG Sci-fi comics and books collection (thousands, i'm not a kid, i'm 39). ) and i think that the BARRACUDA is the worst ship ever designed.
Is correct to say my point of view ???

I would argue the Barracuda is a great design (in fact, it's my favorite ship from Prophecy) -- it's a fish in space, complete with creepy fish eyes, tail fin and a color scheme that shimmers like a trout underwater.

It's also a complete surprise, when it shows up in the game -- bam, suddenly there's an enemy... corvette? Large fighter? What? It's never defined.

If someone has the nice high resolution Barracuda picture, please post it. The texturing along the hull is fantastic.

BIO TECH ??? A fish at space is biotech ???
If you like BIO-TECH check some art by GIGER. That's BIOTECH.

... so you're arguing with a straight face that a *fish* is less of a biological entity than the alien from Alien?
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Well, it's no Barracuda, but it's my all time favorite WC cruiser.:)

wallpaper_render_alien_carrier.jpg
 
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Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
That's a great shot. I've always liked the Barracuda more because it really is *purely* a fish in space. I love the speckled color scheme and generally just the idea of them -- that there's a role for the things somewhere.

The larger alien capital ships were always too dark for my liking, but they are magnificent from a stand alone elaborate design point of view (somewhat ironic to this conversation, I'd say they're *too* Giger-esque -- they're more towards the generic this-is-an-organic-evil-sci-fi-monster... they do it well, but I really think the fighters did that with some greater color and originality).
 

Sibb Tigre

Spaceman
LOAF.. is it entirely possible that he was reffering to the new ships anyway? Could he be on about more than the ships?

I disagree with him, as I like the story and fighting a new enemy, and that I quite like the idea of a new form of fighter/bomber/corvette/capship/etc.

When he says, where have the beautiful ships gone, that's opinion..

I dont need a dictionary to tell you the meaning of the word "opinion".. in fact, I shouldnt need to tell you at all. His "opinion" is against the ships. You cannot "correct" someones opinion, nor tell "them that they are wrong". However, you can "argue"; "why you think they are wrong", by expressing your opinion.

Justification while not required, is often a nice step as it leads to forming a basis for the debate or arguement. I can see where he is coming from.. "fish in space".. as a race, we know nothing about space dwelling lifeforms, and so we could be wrong about "fish in space".. but since its a work of complete fiction, I see no real problem.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Sibb Tigre said:
I dont need a dictionary to tell you the meaning of the word "opinion".. Justification while not required, is often a nice step as it leads to forming a basis for the debate or arguement.

To coin one of the better remembered movies of the last 10 years - "The ability to form an opinion does not make you intelligent"

And yes, you do have to justify your opinions. Otherwise, no one will take you seriously about anything except as a troll. You're expected to have the average intelligence on the CZ as you do in real life - you wouldn't make a silly statement like what heavy said when you're around your peers or co-workers, would you?
 
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