A discussion on the true nature of the Nephilim

Hehe, imagine all those angry bug mamas: "You killed dozens of my sons!" <g>

I agree that the bug forces from SOPS are from Proxima, not from Kilrah , though I never understood how the bug could have opened a wormhole in the heart of the confederation and bringing in so many ships, without Confed realizing for some time. I have to say though, that I would have liked the idea that after the destruction of the Kilrah wormhole the bugs regrouped and tried to get back to their homes and warn their masters, that there is a quite a threat in that part of the galaxy. They did attack other systems besides the ones we see in WCP, thus they should have some forces left.
Cerberus' mission would be to make sure that no warning can reach the bug homeworld and so crippling the bugs' recon.
And I think SOPS was the real invasion attempt.
Are there now still opened wormholes at the end of SOPS?
 
I hope not!!! :eek:

But most likely, yes... I mean, if they can open a new gate into other galaxies at their will, and just because we beat down TWO of their invasion fleets, why should they stop trying? :)
 
I think that isn`t so easy to open a Wormhole, They opened in Proxima because some sort of singularity concerning the Double-Stars, it can`t be cheap !!!
 
Well the one in the Kilrah system couldnt have been too stable if they had to build a gate around it to allow for more ships to come through.
 
Originally posted by Primarch

Just to correct you...Star Wars novels are not cannon, they are official only (with the exception of the original trilogy novels, TMP novel(?) and the radio plays, which are cannon).

Star Trek novels are fan fiction yes, you heard me, fan fiction.
According to paramount they hold no status in Star Trek (cannon, official or otherwise) with the exception of (IIRC) 1 of the original novels and 2 episodes of the animated series.
The rest of the animated series and the computer games hold the same status as the novels (ie, nothing, they don't exist).
If it didn't happen in an episode or film of Star Trek, it didn't happen at all.

[Edited by Primarch on 05-29-2001 at 02:05]
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I'm pretty sure the Star Wars novels are considered canon.

Star Trek the Animated Series is not considered at all, by request of Gene Roddenberry. Some elements from it have been made canon (Robert April is the only one I can think of at the moment), but not whole episodes.

I'd also like to challenge you about the Star Trek computer games being canon. I know for certain "Star Trek: Invasion" for PSX IS canon. There was an article on startrek.com I beleive saying Paramount considered that and the rest of the newer games are canon. It even went so far as to say Paramount cleared everything in Invasion as being canon, and might even use elements from in future endevours.
 
Paramount has to clear everything that goes into the games. They dont allow any of the main characters to die, and apparetnly if you have ground vehicles they have to be hover. BUt the games arent cannon.
 
Unless you can procure proof to that (which I know I can't either, but...) I will consider the games to be canon, because I have seen before Paramount say they are.
 
Thats alright, I consider what happened in the books to be real when they fill in the blanks for something that hasnt been explained in canon, until it is refuted. Like the TNG book Dark Mirror. It had the Enteprise D pulled into the mirror universe by its evil counterparts. But then later in an DS9 episode, it tells that the "Federation" of the mirror universe collapsed. But until that episode, i could believe Dark Mirror happened.
 
Well, there's a difference between Star Trek and Wars novels...

Star Trek is considered fan fiction, with no bearing on what actually occurs in the Star Wars universe.

I thikn that Star Wars is considered canon until proven otherwise. The books are (mostly) self-consistant, though soem aspects of the Force are skewed in every novel. But otherwise, they're considered canon until Episode 2, at least. Lucas did once give the books his blessing.
 
Again, and how many times must this be said, the Star Wars novels are official in that they are licensed by Lucasfilm, but they are NOT canon. In Episode I alone, Lucas invalidated half of them, and in Episode II, he will most likely nail the other half. The books are not, never have been, and never will be, canon. End of subject.
 
Originally posted by Fenris
Again, and how many times must this be said, the Star Wars novels are official in that they are licensed by Lucasfilm, but they are NOT canon.
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I don't see how that works - I would think that licensing implies canon. So you are saying that when Lucas/Roddenberry allows someone to use his universe (characters, etc) there is no restriction on conflicts to existing storyline (from the movies)? You have to have a better argument than "Episode 1 invalidated them...".
 
No one is going to want to read a book that conflicts with what was in a movie if the movie came first. But Lucas wants to be able to write whatever he wants in his movies to make them work. Face it, only a small fraction of the people who see the movies will ever read the books. If Lucas thinks his plot will tell a better story, but it conflicts with a book somewhere, hes gonna darn well use his plot. Those Star Trek books ARE licenesed yet they arent canon. Same with Star Wars books.
 
Perhaps we should steer this back on-topic...

The Gate built in Kilrah was meant to stabilize the wormhole they produced.

Let's look at the ship-size controversy...

1. Tiamats are giant ships, and are very well armed. They have a plethora of gun turrents, as well as a ship-killer plasma weapon.

2. The Tiamats had to fold their petals to fit through the Kilrah Gate. This suggests that the gate was built to accommodate the Tiamat as a maximum ship size.

3. They didn't make the gate larger to accommodate the Tiamat, they made the Tiamat smaller. This implies, but does not prohibit, the suggestion that the gate's size CANNOT be changed.

4. Therefore, the Tiamats are meant to be the largest mobile ships that they could use. The Tiamats are meant to be the largest ships that could be used in the RIF into Confederation space. Since the RIF itself was to establish a beachead, it shows that the Tiamats were meant to be the flagships of the invasion.

5. While the Tiamats may not be the largest ships possible, the majority of the Nephilim craft are similar though slightly larger than their Confed counterparts. The Tiamats are likely to be the largest ships, or at least the second largest...

And that is why the Tiamats are the biggest damn ships in the galaxy, next to Behemoth. And the Big B is gone! Bwa, hah hah...
 
They do. It's in the Prophecy manual.

They don't use it, but they do have it. Cycle through some components, it should be there.
 
Nep, if you would indulge me, I would like to resolve the off-topic discussion.

Originally posted by Supdon3
Those Star Trek books ARE licenesed yet they arent canon. Same with Star Wars books.
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Is that your opinion or something you read somewhere? This is an old debate WRT the WC Universe and what seems to be the general consensus is that books, movies, & games are all canon in the WCU. I've always taken this to mean that giving the author permission to use the license implies that whatever the author writes becomes canon. Of course, I assume that permission is given only when the licensee agrees to certain stipulations (the main character doesn't die, etc).
 
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