Wing Commander Questions

J

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
Okay...more questions. =P

First, can someone either walk through which TYPES of carriers were primarily used in the games, in chronological order, or point me somewhere that information already exists?

Second, in End Run it is inferred that the fighters launch by catapult, in Prophecy/Secret Ops they use launch tubes, in WC3 they just punch the afterburners and launch...how many differant ways are there to launch from a carrier, and what are they? (and also, what's the differance?) And what about landings? Do the ships just fly in and land, or (again from End Run) are the caught in the tractor beams and set down inside?

In WC4 Maniac talks about the fighters being pushed out the back...why would that be so dangerous? He mentions that they lose one or two, and also that they just land to be recovered, why is that so risky?

End Run also refers to a landing bay, I think it was, and how it (the Tarawa) only had one launch bay, but the Concordia had two (I think, correct me if I'm wrong)...what ARE they? Are they like the Ranger-class that has a simple flight deck to fly on and off of? Or a hanger to fly into/out of, or some kind of actual bay?

Thanks, as always, to anyone who answers and to anyone who takes the time to pick through my dozen questions again.
 
In UE launchers were mentioned being on the ship and the Bengal is very old, so maybe they had them around longer.

In WC3 you were stationed on a converted transport so there wouldn't be any launchers-too expense and in the books there seem to be two ways of landing: the tractor or a net of some kind for quick landings. As for launcher I imagine that you can launch by a hanger catapult launch-unforesure though, launch by burners, and the launch tubes which I think was a new think.

Again the Tarawa was a smaller carrier while the Concordia was bigger with more fighters and bombers-being that it was a fleet carrier-so it would need more that then one bay/launh zone.
 
well, i haven't read the books in a while, but here goes

Jason_Ryock said:
Okay...more questions. =P

First, can someone either walk through which TYPES of carriers were primarily used in the games, in chronological order, or point me somewhere that information already exists?
Click to expand...

WC1 Bengal Strike Carrier (Tiger's Claw), WC2 Confederation Class Dreadnought (Concordia), WC3 Ranger Class Light Carrier (Victory), WC4 Concordia Class Fleet Carrier (Lexington), WC4 heavily modified Durango Class Heavy Destroyer (Intrepid), WCP Midway Class Megacarrier (Midway), SO Hades Class Strike Cruiser (Cerberus).

Second, in End Run it is inferred that the fighters launch by catapult, in Prophecy/Secret Ops they use launch tubes, in WC3 they just punch the afterburners and launch...how many differant ways are there to launch from a carrier, and what are they? (and also, what's the differance?) And what about landings? Do the ships just fly in and land, or (again from End Run) are the caught in the tractor beams and set down inside?
Click to expand...

well, the launch tubes in WCP/SO ARE catapults. I haven't read WC3 recently, but IIRC, they use catapults on the Victory too (BTW Iceblade, the Tarawa was a converted transport, not the Victory). as we see in the WC4 novel, it IS possible to launch without a catapult, cause that is just to get you going fast (and when you launch from a carrier, you want to be going fast or the carrier could slam right into you). as for the landings, they use tractor beams, but again, it is possible to do a non-tractor landing

In WC4 Maniac talks about the fighters being pushed out the back...why would that be so dangerous? He mentions that they lose one or two, and also that they just land to be recovered, why is that so risky?
Click to expand...

it would be dangerous cause the way they were doing it the fighters could (and did IIRC) hit each other

End Run also refers to a landing bay, I think it was, and how it (the Tarawa) only had one launch bay, but the Concordia had two (I think, correct me if I'm wrong)...what ARE they? Are they like the Ranger-class that has a simple flight deck to fly on and off of? Or a hanger to fly into/out of, or some kind of actual bay?
Click to expand...

well, like Iceblade said, the reason for the Tarawa having one and the Concordia having 2 is cause the Concordia was larger. as for what they are, they're the place where fighters land and take off from
 
Okay, but...

Were there any other carrier types in operation at those times? Like the Durango, when was that in service, at the same time as the Confederation class? The launch bay things...in WC3 we see covered flight decks not launch bays...ah well, I can't really explain that question any better. I think I'd better just leave it alone, It got lost somewhere between my brain and my fingers.
 
Okay, I'll take a shot at answering your launch bay/catapult questions. As stated earlier, there are 3 ways to launch from a carrier. . . catapult, under power, and the WC4 novel way of just 'pushing' them off. In WC1, we launch using catapults, in WC2, we see ourselves being luanched by catapults, in Wc3 and 4 I am unsure (I don't think the community has found a concrete answer on whether or not what we do in these games is leaving under our own power or catapult assisted - I lean toward we just go out under our own power), and in WCP/SO we leave by catapult (launch tube).

In the difference between the game treatment of dual launch bays and the novels treatment of it, I have a theory. The Concordia (confederation class) clearly has two launch bays on either side of the super structure. THe Concordia class Lex from WC4 and the Ranger class Victory from WC3, seem to have one enormous launch and retreival bay while the novel states that the Lex has 2. I say that this one huge landing/launch bay can be divided into 2 sides. Look along the walls of the Victory launch bay, you see the cubby holes that the fighters fit in? I bet there is a mirror image on the other side of the bay, allowing the huge landing bay to be seperated into 2 smaller launch and landing bays. this also explains why it is stated in novels and games that a single light fighter crash can shut down fighter operations in one bay when it is obvious that fighters can almost fit 2 abreast into the cavernous launch bay. Split it into 2 and that could actually happen. Just a theory, I'm not sure if it's been posed before but, hell, it's new to me.

Another thing I want to take a shot at is catapult launch. It is a given fact that all carriers can launch by catapult. My question is why are they needed? In the case of the Tigers Claw, the Tarawa and the Midway, it is needed to spit fighters out of their launch tubes, clear the fighters from the cramped launch bay in a quick and orderly fashion (can you imagine jerking the control yoke at the wrong time under your own power in the bay of the Tarawa), and to get the length of the Midway in a Hurah, respectively. But why is it needed in the case of the big open expanses of the Lex and Vic? One explaination could be the theory stated before about the twin bays (becoming a Tarawa cramped spaces situation). Yet another could be one I'm about to pose. The only other reason I could think of is the difference between running with scoops closed and running with scoops open. With scoops open, a capships top speed is somewhere near 200kps, well below that of normal cruise velocity of normal fighters (also pilot mistakes could be made without serious consequenses), therefore catapults would not be needed (as I think we may see in WC3 and 4). But if a carrier is running with scoops closed and blistering along at a couple of thousand kilometers a second, any mistakes in launching would be lethal to both the fighter and detrimental to the capship involved in the launching. So maybe the fact of going through a full combat catapult launch every time (whether running with scoops closed or not) is just doctorine saying, " this HAS to be done a few times so why not just do it all the time?"-kindof situation? Comments?\
I'll put a plug in my theories for now ;).

C-ya
 
From what I could gather by reading all the novels recently (found that at discount store) there are several ways to launch. The catapult thing seems to be the correct way it's normally done. This is why we see it in the first 2 games and in Heart of the Tiger the novel (never played the game). In The Price of Freedom there is a part that actually talks about this problem. The Intrepid is basically crap and the catapults don't work. Blair even worries about having to make a take off unassisted. About the part where they just drop the ships out the back, this happens during another novel (fleet action?). Basically they do this for various reasons. In a cramped hold it's too hard to maneuver and hence easier to just let the ship float out and start engines there, and so they aren't detected on radar (Maniac specifically gives this answer in PoF). Why it's dangerous to do this? Because if while the ships are just floating out of the bay they are slow moving targets and normally don't have shields powered up, so anyone sees you (as Blair witnessed in PoF) and you're dead. They lose people this way because while most are getting picked off, a few are able to escape being shot at start up.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Were there any other carrier types in operation at those times? Like the Durango, when was that in service, at the same time as the Confederation class? The launch bay things...in WC3 we see covered flight decks not launch bays...ah well, I can't really explain that question any better. I think I'd better just leave it alone, It got lost somewhere between my brain and my fingers.
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oh, did you mean what years (not games) the carriers were in? sorry bout that. here goes

Ranger Class - designed in 2584; retired after kilrathi war?
Concordia Class - entered service in 2634, still in?
Bengal Class (only game, not movie) - entered service in 2644; don't know if still in
Confederation class - entered service in early 2660's; don't know if still in
Durango Class- unknown when entered service, obsolete (by confed standards) in 2663 (was a confed destroyer, but BW modified the intrepid into a carrier)
Midway Class- entered service in 2680, still in
Hades Class- entered service in 2681, still in

as for other carriers, the Vesuvius Class entered service in 2673, still in
they're may be others, but i don't remember them

and as for the launch bay thing, are you asking why we see convered flight decks in WC3, WC4, WCP, and SO, but uncovered flight decks in WC1 and WC2? or did i get it wrong

Viper, IIRC, the reason why the WC4 novel says the lex as having 2 bays is that forstchen confused the concordia class with the concordia (wc2) herself

TopGun- no, the lex is a Concordia class. yeah, they do look the same
 
The Intrepid's special circumstances aside, catapults are the only way of launching a fighter. The differences just occur in where those catapults are placed -- in WC2, 3 and 4, they're on a flat deck that doubles as the recovery area... in WC1 and WCP they're mounted in tubes with a completely separate area for fighter recovery. The ability to take off 'under power' in the PC versions of WC3 and WC4 is more of a case of 'lets do that because we can and it looks cool' on the part of the game developers... whenever launches from the Victory or the Lexington are described (or when they occur in a port), they talk about catapults.

Ranger Class - designed in 2584; retired after kilrathi war?
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Yup, the WC4 novel mentions that they were scrapped after the war.

Bengal Class (only game, not movie) - entered service in 2644; don't know if still in
Click to expand...

The Confed Handbook claims the initial version entered service in 2619. They could have been produced up until 2675, when the Trojan IV yards would have started tooling up to produce the new Midway-class.

Confederation class - entered service in early 2660's; don't know if still in
Click to expand...

Production stopped in 2665 because of the issues with the phase transit cannons.

they're may be others, but i don't remember them
Click to expand...

There were at least two classes of pre-war carrier classes... ones described as 'fleet carriers' and ones described as 'heavy carriers' in Action Stations. There are two classes of Escort Carrier... the Tarawa-type (2667-2670) and the Eagle-type (2669-present). There's the CVA 'Attack Carrier' mentioned in End Run... and then the Handbook mentions a 'patrol carrier'.
 
Aries said:
they're may be others, but i don't remember them
Click to expand...

Bandit LOAF said:
There were at least two classes of pre-war carrier classes... ones described as 'fleet carriers' and ones described as 'heavy carriers' in Action Stations. There are two classes of Escort Carrier... the Tarawa-type (2667-2670) and the Eagle-type (2669-present). There's the CVA 'Attack Carrier' mentioned in End Run... and then the Handbook mentions a 'patrol carrier'.
Click to expand...

damn, i forgot the Tarawa! :eek: must re-re-re-re-re-read the books again!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, that was my question about launch bays. I remember reading somewhere, may have been a fan site, that the ranger class of carriers was simply an older class that had had their flight decks covered over. *wonders where that was*
 
Bandit LOAF said:
The Intrepid's special circumstances aside, catapults are the only way of launching a fighter. The differences just occur in where those catapults are placed -- in WC2, 3 and 4, they're on a flat deck that doubles as the recovery area... in WC1 and WCP they're mounted in tubes with a completely separate area for fighter recovery. The ability to take off 'under power' in the PC versions of WC3 and WC4 is more of a case of 'lets do that because we can and it looks cool' on the part of the game developers... whenever launches from the Victory or the Lexington are described (or when they occur in a port), they talk about catapults. . .
Click to expand...

Wow, I try an "in universe" catapult explaination and Mr. Continuity himself says "the game designers and novelists just screwed up". I love it ;).

C-ya
 
Hehe, I don't think it's as much screwing up as it was a conscious decision that (for whatever reason) ships you could fly through were really, really awesome.

So they stuck holes everywhere they could in WC3 and 4. :)
 
Damn the audacity of those game designers/novelists! It took me over 5 min to come up with those theories (it took me longer to type it ;) ) How dare them!!!

C-ya
 
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