Wing Commander Prophecy Numbers

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Howdy,
I was adding the Wing Commander Prophecy Demo to the timeline, and that got me wondering what the "numbers" in the mission titles mean. Any thoughts on this?

(They go up through the game - starting with 100.8 and ending with 747.9. We know they're not the dates... these two days are .025 and .056 respectively.)

Actually, any thoughts on a WCP timeline would be helpful -- right now I'm just going with the 'good' choices -- but if anyone has a better idea, I'm happy to hear it.
 
Could the numbers be coordinates of some sorts? I assume you're refering to the "TCSM" numbers. Terran Confederation... Space... Map?
 
Could be some arbitrary measurement of time from the launch of the Midway. Casey arrives 100.8 units from the Midway launch and the game ends 647.1 arbitrary time units later.

Actually.. the arbitrary time units might simply be standard hours. 0.25 to 0.56 is 31 days. 31 days is 744 hours. Pretty darn close to the 747 figure. The numbers could be measuring hours from the formal start of their mission or possibly from Casey's arrival (the numbers might be an hourly timer initiated by Casey upon his arrival). 747.9 might represent 747 hours, 54 minutes since the incursion into Kilrah space by the Nephilim.
 
I was curious - are you figuring the Secret Ops mission numbers into this equation as well? Because some of them have letters in them IIRC.
 
Actually.. the arbitrary time units might simply be standard hours. 0.25 to 0.56 is 31 days. 31 days is 744 hours. Pretty darn close to the 747 figure. The numbers could be measuring hours from the formal start of their mission or possibly from Casey's arrival (the numbers might be an hourly timer initiated by Casey upon his arrival). 747.9 might represent 747 hours, 54 minutes since the incursion into Kilrah space by the Nephilim.

Talked about this with you on IRC - sounds like 2681.021.0730 (Nephilim intel document issued) seems like the most reasonable starting point -- since that's about 100 hours before Casey's first mission.

Here's the list -- SO mucks things up something awful, but I suppose the Cerberus would be measuring time differently since it's facing a separate, later threat.

A .051 date for the last mission should be fine, as long as it doesn't *exceed* .056 (which is when the first SO documents about the victory are dated).

H'rekkah B1 - 100.8
H'rekkah B2 - 101.1
H'rekkah B3a - 102.0
H'rekkah B3b - 103.5 (NIT)
H'rekkah B4a - 104.0
H'rekkah B4b - 105.5 (NIT)
G'wriss C1 - 206.7
G'wriss C2a - 207.0
G'wriss C2b - 208.5 (NIT)
G'wriss C2c - 209.4 (NIT)
G'wriss C3a - 210.0
G'wriss C3b - 211.5 (NIT)
H'hrass DL1 - 312.3 (NIT)
H'hrass DL2 - 313.2 (NIT)
H'hrass D1 - 314.1
H'hrass D2 - 315.2
H'hrass DE1 - 316.3
H'hrass DE2 - 317.4
H'hrass DE3a - 318.9
H'hrass DE3b - 319.1 (NIT)
T'lan Meth E1 - 416.3
T'lan Meth E2 - 417.4
T'lan Meth E3a - 418.0
T'lan Meth E3b - 419.5 (NIT)
T'lan Meth E4a - 420.0
T'lan Meth E4b - 421.5 (NIT)
T'lan Meth F1 - 422.7
T'lan Meth F2 - 423.8
T'lan Meth F3 - 424.4
T'lan Meth F4a - 425.0
T'lan Meth F4b - 426.5 (NIT)
T'lan Meth F5 - 427.2
T'lan Meth F6a - 428.0
T'lan Meth F6b - 429.5 (NIT)
G'mar G1 - 530.4
G'mar G2 - 531.7
G'mar G3 - 532.9
Hrissith H1a - 633.0
Hrissith H1b - 634.5 (NIT)
Hrissith H2a - 635.0
Hrissith H2b - 636.5 (NIT)
Hrissith H3 - 637.8
Hrissith H4 - 638.3
Hrissith H5 - 639.6
Hrissith H6 - 640.8
Kilrah I1 - 741.2
Kilrah I2 - 742.3
Kilrah I3a - 743.0
Kilrah I3b - 744.5 (NIT)
Kilrah I4 - 745.4
Kilrah I5 - 746.7
Kilrah I6 - 747.9
Hellespont L1 - 048.7 (NIT)
Hellespont L2 - 049.6 (NIT)
Alcor L3 - 050.1 (NIT)

Courage 1 - 29.1
Courage 2 - 80.2
Courage 3a - 40.6
Courage 3b - 66.2 (NIT)
Courage 4 - 68.7
Ella 1 - 1096.A0
Ella 2 - 2100.X4
Ella 3 - 7020.00
Ella 4 - 7031.0A
Ella 5a - 0055.CC
Ella 5b - 0078.C9 (NIT)
Ella 6 - 0102.0A
Talos 1 - 086.99
Talos 2a - 087.01
Talos 2b - 088.AA (NIT)
Talos 3 - 090.0C
Talos 4a - 104.82
Talos 4b - 104.C0 (NIT)
Talos 5a - 105.00
Talos 5b - 105.0A (NIT)
Cygnus 1 - 98.22
Cygnus 2 - 98.30
Cygnus 3 - 98.37
Cygnus 4a - 98.38
Cygnus 4b - 98.39 (NIT)
Cygnus 5 - 98.40
Luyten 1 - 03.A8
Luyten 2 - 04.00
Luyten 3 - 04.K7
Luyten 4 - 05.UX
Luyten 5a - 05.V4
Luyten 5b - 06.XZ (NIT)
Luyten 6a - 06.Z3
Luyten 6b - 08.A4 (NIT)
Sirius 1 - 12.00
Sirius 2 - 13.0A
Sirius 3 - 13.9C
Sirius 4 - 14.0D
Sirius 5a - 15.3G
Sirius 5b - 16.2L (NIT)
Sirius 6a - 18.9Y
Sirius 6b - 18.9Z (NIT)
Krieger 1 - V.02 (NIT)
Krieger 2 - G.16 (NIT)
Krieger 3 - U.00 (NIT)
Krieger 4 - H.27 (NIT)
Krieger 5 - S.05 (NIT
Krieger 6 - K.88 (NIT)
Krieger 7 - W.09 (NIT)
Krieger 8 - P.76 (NIT)
Proxima 1a - 9.GD
Proxima 1b - 0.AA (NIT)
Proxima 2a - 5.HR
Proxima 2b - 4.XX (NIT)
Proxima 3 - 6.KL
Proxima 4 - 7.FY
 
As dumb as this sounds, I figured I should mention it anyway - could the numbers be in relation to the fighter sortie?

Perhaps the Strategy Guide author would know. Are we still in touch with him?
 
Just a question but where does the Prophecy Demo fit into the storyline? I never realised it had missions the full game didn't. Did any of the other WC games demo's have this?
 
Skanks said:
Just a question but where does the Prophecy Demo fit into the storyline? I never realised it had missions the full game didn't. Did any of the other WC games demo's have this?

Well, it's in the list above! The Prophecy Demo is a second half to the H'hrass Series. It picks up after the jammer has been destroyed and ends with the jump to T'lan Meth.

No other WC demo had an integrated storyline like the WCP Demo. Others did have unique missions, though -- the WCIII DEmo, the WCIV Demo and the WCP Test all have missions you can't fly in the regular game.
 
Hmm.. on second thought.. while the hours thing meshes almost exactly at the beginning and endpoints, the interm stuff is too weird for it to be hours. Each system is a hundred hours apart.. and all the missions within each system occur during a six hour span. Doesn't seem likely. But looking at the numbers again, we can take the first number to mean system. And then the second two digits within the number are mission.

So I'd guess since the decimals are included, we are looking at time units. While the first number is system, my next guess would be that the second two digits are the day. But then we know Prophecy is less than 34 days.. and that would indicate 46 days. Back to the drawing board.

Next guess.. the 46 days could be "stardates" or "ship days" (Halman's suggestion). If the Midway were in fact operating on 16 hour "duty cycles," then the dates would sync up. So the first number in the thing is system since the mission began, and the second two digits are duty cycles since the beginning of the mission. With each duty cycle corresponding to 16 hours. 47.9 duty cycles works out to just under 32 days, which almost exactly fits within our .021 to .055.

<Halman> Makes sense. 16 hours on call, 8 hours sleep.

So a Midway Day is 16 hours? The first number in the xyz.a is system of the mission, yz is date since the beginning of the mission in Midway Days, and a is the time within the day. 0.1 is about 1.6 hours. At the very least this maps out the proportions of time clearly.
 
If the “mission log numbers” reflect location and time, how are the H’hrass demo missions to be accounted for, since those numbers (in terms of time) conflict with the corresponding T’lan Meth (time) numbers? (I’m not familiar with the demo, but if it shows you–the player–flying off the Midway, it doesn’t seem that the two sets of missions can occur simultaneously.)

A similar issue arises regarding the Hellespont and Alcor missions, but for both location and time–all three log numbers begin with “0“ despite the fact there are two systems, and those missions are supposed to (possibly) occur in between the H’hrass and T’lan Meth series.
 
Actually it just looks like something useful for internal reference.

ABC.X, where A is the mission series, BC is the order of mission play, and X is the version of the mission. I dont remember the success tree so if there's not a branch across t'lan meth and h'hrass we'll have to find something else.
 
Actually it just looks like something useful for internal reference.

The Guide says they are “the Midway’s mission log numbers”, so they clearly have an administrative purpose.

ABC.X . . .

I think that any scheme proposed, at least as regards Prophecy, will have to account for the “interruptions” in the numerical progression, specifically the H’hrass demo missions and the Hellespont and Alcor missions. (And I don’t think we can get around the latter by positing they don’t occur, since while that could be true, their not occurring doesn’t undercut the apparent fact that if they occur, they will indeed have the log numbers shown for them.)

So how does this scheme fare . . .

. . . where A is the mission series . . .

Why then are the Hellespont and Alcor series both designated “0”, and in addition fall in between series 3 and 4? One explanation might be to distinguish between the “this-is-when-we-are-retreating” and “this-is-when-we-are-advancing” missions.

. . . BC is the order of mission play, and X is the version of the mission.

Of course these numbers constitute the progression we see. But the progression itself is not quite real, because we know that not all possible missions occur. For example, depending on what happens during G’wriss “C1” (206.7), we end up flying “C2a” (207.0), “C2b” (208.5), or “C2c” (209.4), but only one, thus leaving “gaps”. How to account for this? Maybe one explanation is that the Midway systematically “projects” the range of missions it could be facing or would want to carry out, and accordingly assigns log numbers in each case, producing a progression that is not designed to be consistently realized in fact. And in this regard, as suggested, “.X” would further allow for a lot of variation.

The foregoing might also be able to account for the H’hrass demo numbers where they were somehow a “too late” projection compared to those for T’lan Meth, or the latter for some reason a “too early” projection. Alternatively, perhaps these missions are part and parcel and/or occur at roughly the same time in the two systems, but I don’t know if the information in the demo supports/contradicts this interpretation. (For example, is Casey supposed to be flying in the demo missions too?)

As for the Hellespont and Alcor series, their “BC” numbers certainly seem “wrong”, designated as the very last missions when instead (if they occur) they come in the middle. One explanation might be that they are intentionally designated “last” so as to segregate them from the “winning” missions (as in the case of “A” and specifically “0"). However, it doesn’t seem they can be contrived in this way, because we know all the log numbers are generated concurrently, if not beforehand–we can always display the specs and log number for the given mission we’re in the process of flying.

On the other hand, if those “0[BC]” numbers are then just a coincidence, what do they really mean? One possible answer is that they are still genuine “BC” (order of mission) numbers–if the Midway is projecting “winning” progressions it may (should) be projecting “losing” ones too, and each type simply has its own “BC” order.

Lastly, as to the ABC.X scheme overall, why don’t SO’s numbers (not to mention letters) “fit”? Maybe one explanation is that the Prophecy numbers are a “simple” case, where there is a clear-cut strategy being pursued, namely confrontation and/or containment, whereas SO represents a much more complicated situation requiring projections that comprise both offensive and defensive aims (and maybe also have to be coordinated with other ships), and accordingly other variables in the numbering protocol or “mission algorithm” are implicated (sometimes producing progressions within progressions?).
 
Another annoying caveat, thanks to the demo: if you lose 317.4 you go to 319.1... and then if you win it, you go on to 318.9. Argh!

Of course these numbers constitute the progression we see. But the progression itself is not quite real, because we know that not all possible missions occur. For example, depending on what happens during G’wriss “C1” (206.7), we end up flying “C2a” (207.0), “C2b” (208.5), or “C2c” (209.4), but only one, thus leaving “gaps”. How to account for this? Maybe one explanation is that the Midway systematically “projects” the range of missions it could be facing or would want to carry out, and accordingly assigns log numbers in each case, producing a progression that is not designed to be consistently realized in fact. And in this regard, as suggested, “.X” would further allow for a lot of variation.

I think the easiest way to account for the gaps is that there are other missions going on that Casey *isn't* involved with. While Casey and Alpha Wing are flying 207.0, there's 250 other Midway (do not treat as an exact number - I know Wolfpack wasn't around) pilots flying other missions.

The foregoing might also be able to account for the H’hrass demo numbers where they were somehow a “too late” projection compared to those for T’lan Meth, or the latter for some reason a “too early” projection. Alternatively, perhaps these missions are part and parcel and/or occur at roughly the same time in the two systems, but I don’t know if the information in the demo supports/contradicts this interpretation. (For example, is Casey supposed to be flying in the demo missions too?)

Casey is the character in the demo. The story in 1997 was that the demo missions were 'culled' from the game for use as the demo (they fit into the story and explain a bit of an oddity - why the Midway never actually gets resupplied). The demo missions begin with a comment about how the relay station has been destroyed and end with the way to the T'lan Meth System being clear. (In all fairness, I believe Captain Johnny said at the time that the demo missions were never intended for the actual game -- so, PR versus development here).

As for the Hellespont and Alcor series, their “BC” numbers certainly seem “wrong”, designated as the very last missions when instead (if they occur) they come in the middle. One explanation might be that they are intentionally designated “last” so as to segregate them from the “winning” missions (as in the case of “A” and specifically “0"). However, it doesn’t seem they can be contrived in this way, because we know all the log numbers are generated concurrently, if not beforehand–we can always display the specs and log number for the given mission we’re in the process of flying.

Yeah, Hellespont and Alcor are the real killers here -- since they don't distinguish between star systems and they ruin the clear flow of the missions in order... my only thought is that maybe it got changed to '0' when the campaign became a retreat instead of a planned advance to Kilrah. (Or maybe it's something more obscure -- number of jumps into Kilrathi space.)
 
If they are a measurement of time from when the Midway's mission started, could the fact Hellespont and Alcor start with 0 be because it's considered a new mission i.e. defend Sol? (I think that's what the mission were about) and if you do win those missions and continue on then they resume the original mission ordering?

Actually even if they aren't a measurement of time they could be on a different track compared to the rest of the missions for the same reason?
 
LOAF said:
Another annoying caveat, thanks to the demo: if you lose 317.4 you go to 319.1... and then if you win it, you go on to 318.9. Argh!

Though that would be consistent with the log numbers–under some circumstances–being assigned and “written in stone” beforehand. (PowerPoint lives! My turn to say Argh!)

I think the easiest way to account for the gaps is that there are other missions going on that Casey *isn't* involved with. While Casey and Alpha Wing are flying 207.0, there's 250 other Midway (do not treat as an exact number - I know Wolfpack wasn't around) pilots flying other missions.

That certainly works. But I guess the next question is whether the progression occurs just in “BC” or “BC.X”? The fact that “0” is sometimes used for “X” suggests to me that “X” has only ten values. (But I note that SO’s numbers certainly don’t follow any such limitation, where for example we see “.00” and “.01”.)

(In all fairness, I believe Captain Johnny said at the time that the demo missions were never intended for the actual game -- so, PR versus development here).

While maybe too cute, an “in-universe” analogy to a “PR” demo mission would be Casey having a dream.:)

Yeah, Hellespont and Alcor are the real killers here -- since they don't distinguish between star systems and they ruin the clear flow of the missions in order... my only thought is that maybe it got changed to '0' when the campaign became a retreat instead of a planned advance to Kilrah.

Alternatively but similarly, “A” could represent whether the campaign, and more particularly the strategy or aim, is being advanced. That would account for why “A” changes system to system in Prophecy while the Midway is advancing towards Kilrah–i.e., getting closer to the point of origin where “containment” can be achieved–but remains “0” system to system while the Midway is falling back. In sum, “A” is the linear progression of the overall strategy the “BC.X” missions are designed to achieve incrementally.

Here’s a further related thought: if, as you posit, the game’s mission tree reflects only those missions (potential or actual) that Casey flies, and so there are always other “[1-7][BC.X]” missions being flown that preserve the linear progression, why can’t there always be other “0[BC.X]” missions being flown too? These would be missions that are “routine” (SOP missions) or otherwise simply don’t materially contribute to the “advancement” of the given campaign. It makes perfect sense that such “0” missions would have their own “BC” order, and thus “48”, “49”, and “50” are simply next in line when the Midway is forced into Hellespont.

On the other hand, that would seem to trivialize the importance of those specific missions (though maybe that’s still consistent with a log protocol that’s very “campaign-biased"), and further, may not make total sense as a progression since we might expect the Alcor mission to be a higher number (though maybe “.X” adequately accounts for it).

Skanks said:
. . . could the fact Hellespont and Alcor start with 0 be because it's considered a new mission i.e. defend Sol?

Well, maybe “on the verge” of becoming one.

Actually even if they aren't a measurement of time they could be on a different track compared to the rest of the missions for the same reason?

I think they have to be “on a different track” in some sense, because I don’t see how we can account for those (losing) “BC” numbers vis-à-vis the last (winning) “BC” numbers in Kilrah except as coincidence.
 
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