Wing Commander: Legacy of the Confederation

[Manic]

Yeah, I'm picking up the ol' modding mantle. I got my brain wrapped around Empire at War, and I must say, this is some of the best groundwork for a mod. I'm trying to get a hold of some of the old team(from my invasion days), and more information will follow.
Some information about the mod features which are planned:
1. Every ship, from every era. (the already-present tech tree will help with that one.)
2. Every battle, from every era, in single-player campaign. These will include other wings from each game that were sent out on different missions. the waypoint system may not be possible, but we can use "guarding" to emulate said missions.
(once the mod tools are released.) Every fighter wing will have it's own job to do, so there won't be any "grab everyone and send it after the fralthra" moves. (the Kilrathi, for the first three chapters, will mostly be based off of the losing trees of said games. The fourth chapter will switch out the kilrathi for the border worlds, and the Kilrathi will be a Non-Playable Race. (they will exist, however.) the Fifth chapter will again bring back the Kilrathi. No, no bugs. The bugs will be the common enemy there.)
3. Realistic stats on everything, based off of the original games' data.(except in a few rare cases, where the game's description of something doesn't match what it did in game, such as the bug's shield killer fighters.)
4. Possibility of ground battles, though more research will have to be done, in the way of land units. (fighting aboard the various ships/stations/planets, using marines, comes to mind) It is possible to modify the game to space-battles only, if need be.
5. Hero units:
Blair(in the single-player campaign, We'll hold true to the games as much as possible, in what one will be flying and such)
pretty much any wingman that has ever been in the game will be a hero unit, of sorts. Blair will fly with his proper wingmen, when appropriate.
Unless I can track down Wildcat, I'm afraid the team won't have a modeler at first... but that's ok, considering the mod tools to import models aren't even available, yet. This, of course, gives us plenty of time to lay the groundwork. (all coding should be finished by the time the tools are released, and hopefully the models will be too. Upon release, the only things we should NEED to do is copy+paste the models into the appropriate directories, and create the campaign. From what I've seen, the campaign will be VERY easy to mod. (the star systems will be in place by the time the tools are released. All that will remain is creating the maps, and the scripting... which is LUA based, so that part will be simplicity itself.)
Anyone who would like to help, or has suggestions/ideas, drop me a line at timothystevenson (at) gmail.com, with the subject "WC: Legacy" (we don't have a hosting solution yet, but we don't have any work done, either. I just came up with the concept about an hour or two ago.)
This is gonna be good.

 

[ChrisReid]

This is gonna be good.

I'd be very wary of trying to promise everything. If you haven't done any work at all yet, I'd wait and see how adding a few ships and things goes before even announcing such details.

 

[Manic]

True, I was a bit over-enthusiated when I posted, but this is the sort of challenge I live for. I've gotten a hold of one of the old members, and I can hopefully get a hold of Payne and Wildcat(two very talented modelers from the Invasion team)... with a project this ambitious, we'll probably be picking up everyone we can talk into it. It's going to be a long time off, nonetheless. The model importer and LUA decoder(they use some sort of odd version of LUA 5.2 for the scripting) are probably not going to see a release until they finish patching the game, and the game's very young. At the moment, I'm working on gutting the .meg storage files and analyzing the xml's obsessively, looking for ways to do the superweapons.
However, I can say this much for sure; I don't see anything that isn't possible, WC weapon-wise. Including the Behemoth.

 

[Raptor_Pilot]

Sounds like a great idea, just don't try to rush it out to us. I for one don't mind a long wait as long as the end result is worth the wait. I'm buying EaW as soon as I can. And I will wait patiently for a WC mod. Hope you put the Raptor in

 

[Manic]

Oh, it'll be there. Along with anything else that ever existed in WC fiction.

 

[Quarto]

Oh, it'll be there. Along with anything else that ever existed in WC fiction.

...Which to me is a sure-fire sign that we need not take you or this mod seriously. Haven't you learned anything from Invasion? The general rule is, any project that sets out to re-create the whole damn universe is dead before it even begins. You need to set yourself some realistic goals.

(don't take this personally, though - I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just presenting the hard, simple facts)

 

[Manic]

I understand where you're coming from there, Quatro. The team's first goal will be getting the WC1 units going in multiplayer/skirmish, for version 1. The project will probably be ongoing for quite some time. We're not going to rush it, however.
Actually, the first goal is getting a team together that can cover all the bases. (that, and fleshing out an online storage solution, a hard drive failure was what sparked off the project's demise. That, and we didn't have any plan, whatsoever.)
I personally don't recall any project of this scope - it'll be a daunting task, to be sure - however, breaking it up into an episodal format for releases is key, I think. At present, I'm using the existing models to get the WC1 craft in place. I just pray petroglyph releases the neccicary tools(there's a pretty big outcry for it).
edit- I've learned to listen to people, in these situations. I'm not gonna go Derek Smart on ya. I appreciate the warning.

 

[Lt.Death100]

I would say working on one era at a time starting with WC1.

 

[Manic]

That's what I just said... glad we agree, though.

 

[ChrisReid]

I understand where you're coming from there, Quatro. The team's first goal will be getting the WC1 units going in multiplayer/skirmish, for version 1. The project will probably be ongoing for quite some time. We're not going to rush it, however.
Actually, the first goal is getting a team together that can cover all the bases. (that, and fleshing out an online storage solution, a hard drive failure was what sparked off the project's demise. That, and we didn't have any plan, whatsoever.)
I personally don't recall any project of this scope - it'll be a daunting task, to be sure - however, breaking it up into an episodal format for releases is key, I think. At present, I'm using the existing models to get the WC1 craft in place. I just pray petroglyph releases the neccicary tools(there's a pretty big outcry for it).

There have been a number of projects that have promised "everything" like yours and not delivered much. I wouldn't really announce my project if I was still working out the basics in my head and still contacting some friends to join the team. If you seriously think this is the most ambitious project ever, are you willing to do it? There are groups that have been actively working on their Wing Commander mods for five years straight. Do you have a plan for how you're going to achieve all this? What is your schedule? If you just tell yourself that it's going to take a long time in every post from the very beginning, it'll be super easy to procrastinate.

 

[criticalmass]

Manic, that's a heroic task you've set yourself. I don't want to throw in a wrench by asking how you want to achieve this - given time and perseverance, you may or may not.

My angle just is: Why would anyone play everything that already has been there? All the remake mods are technically great, but boring once you play them. Its like getting a brand new VW beetle when you were used to driving the old bug back in the days: Same shape, nice fittings, same story - everything works perfect, and your memory just says: Thats not the feeling I had when I was 19 and wrestled the clutch and stick.

Now all this is personal opinion and thereofre highly irrelevant, so I can jsu as well continue with the advice part: If you set yourself up to cover all the Wing Commander bases, don't start by recreating ancient history. Dump Blair. Dump all the others, or put them in the backstory. Get up and do something new.

Well, either this gets through somehow, or I've managed to annoy you enough to boost the perseverance level. In either case, you win. Cheers!

 

[Manic]

It's time I followed my own advice. You can ask away, but I'm only responding to those with legitimate questions. Those that do have an idea, suggestion, or question, will recieve a response, albeit not prompt. I'm wasting too much time by posting here... I need to get to work.

 

[Chevieblazer]

hmm, i acutally had a very similar idea a while ago. i have a load of ships from the wc mod that i don't use any more (like low poly versions of the rapier, raptor and hornet, complete with skins, bump and spec maps. if you want...pm me

 

[Manic]

PM Inbound. We can use all the help we can get

 

[ChrisReid]

It's time I followed my own advice. You can ask away, but I'm only responding to those with legitimate questions. Those that do have an idea, suggestion, or question, will recieve a response, albeit not prompt. I'm wasting too much time by posting here... I need to get to work.

Are you working on it so feverishly that a two sentence post is blowing your timetable? You don't have to reply to any of us. We don't expect much. But if you actually want to see this project through to completion, I think the questions that have been raised in this thread are legitimate and critical for you to consider.

 

[Manic]

You want answers? Here goes!
WC Legacy's FAQ of DOOM!

Are you working on it so feverishly that a two sentence post is blowing your timetable?

Ah, yes. First off, it's not my timetable I am worried about(by recent estimates, the mod tools won't see a release for at least six months). It's my train of thought. If I let it be derailed by naysayers(which is exactly what's going on here), it'll stay that way for at least a week. That's just the way my mind works.

We don't expect much.

must... fight... sarcastic... comment... *urk*

If you seriously think this is the most ambitious project ever, are you willing to do it?

I can't believe you felt the need to ask this one...
Yes, I have every intention of seeing this through, to completion. As does my partner.

There are groups that have been actively working on their Wing Commander mods for five years straight. Do you have a plan for how you're going to achieve all this?

I'm aware of this fact(I have much respect for the folks at those mods, I'm a big fan of both Standoff and Saga, and yeah, we've got the basic machinations of a plan. (keeping a concept journal on paper, just in case)

What is your schedule?

We intend to have things ready to go, by the release of the tools needed to impliment the models. However, the old adage of "It's done when it's done" never hurts. Setting a date for me and Epytron to promptly miss is just begging for a flaming... not giving one will give naysayers a "SEE! YOU WILL FAIL!" opportunity, but so what. This isn't about them. However, I anticipate an alpha release for testing within a few weeks of the tools' release, if all goes well. (This will not include AI evaluation, as the scripts can't be deciphered even, yet. Those LUA files will require some study.)

I think the questions that have been raised in this thread are legitimate and critical for you to consider.

The asker of the questions, often does. At any rate, I hope these answers satisfy your curiosity.

@Criticalmass: That is a good point. The campaign is a very raw concept, at the moment... perhaps we'll do the original series as kind of a subcampaign (with the main storyline running along the history of some character that runs the gamut of the series...) the main initial goal will be to get some craft in, and playable. We just may take it in a different direction. (On the other hand, Star Wars games have been doing it for years. *chuckles* Yeah, it's starting to get old, but they mix it up just enough to keep it fun. Usually. If you'd like to help us cook up a concept, we'd welcome the input.)

 

[Quarto]

You want answers?

I want the truth!

Ah, yes. First off, it's not my timetable I am worried about(by recent estimates, the mod tools won't see a release for at least six months). It's my train of thought. If I let it be derailed by naysayers(which is exactly what's going on here), it'll stay that way for at least a week. That's just the way my mind works.

I don't think you quite understand what's going on here. None of us are here as naysayers. We're here to warn you. The simple fact is, you can either take our advice, or give up on this mod right now. Believe me, we've all seen enough failed mods to recognise what can go wrong and how to avoid it. Right now, it seems like your mod is headed straight for the trash bin, and none of us want that - we want more completed mods to play, not more unfinished junk to laugh at.

Your problem is that you seem to think (or at least, that's the impression you're getting across) you'll get this done on enthusiasm alone. You won't. It's that simple. In a week, maybe a month, your enthusiasm will fade and you'll give up. To avoid this, you need a clear and realistic plan. You need to know what you're doing, and you need to be able to explain it in a few short sentences to people not involved in this mod. The idea is that if you have a plan, an exact vision of what you want to achieve, you'll be able to break it down into smaller tasks, which you can actually complete. You will thus actually see progress, and this will encourage you, help keep you in the fight. If you go a step further, and actually show this progress to other people (here we go again with my "fan projects die if they don't have a regularly updated website" theory ), you will help yourself further - people will get excited about the project, and they'll let you know they're excited about it. Believe me, it's much easier to find the energy to work on a project that everyone's waiting for than something that nobody cares about.

All this is especially critical at the start of a project. Right now, you've got the enthusiasm - but it's a race against time. No matter what you believe, no matter what you tell yourself right now, that initial enthusiasm will be gone soon. Your top priority task, therefore, is to turn this initial enthusiasm into something concrete, something that will keep you going, and that will encourage other people to join your project. Keep in mind, unless you have something to show, some proof that your project is serious, you're simply not going to get any volunteers to join you.

It's all self-fulfilling. A fan project is either completed or killed by the actions of its initiators in the first few weeks of its existence. After that, whatever happens for the next five years or whatever... is just a formality.

 

[Manic]

I want the truth!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
*snicker* had to do it...

I don't think you quite understand what's going on here. None of us are here as naysayers. We're here to warn you. The simple fact is, you can either take our advice, or give up on this mod right now. Believe me, we've all seen enough failed mods to recognise what can go wrong and how to avoid it. Right now, it seems like your mod is headed straight for the trash bin, and none of us want that - we want more completed mods to play, not more unfinished junk to laugh at.

Again, thanks for the advice. Now, unless you have anything for me aside from "you need a plan" (which we already have.), I'll be on my merry way.
PS: ChrisReid appears pretty damn negative. He hasn't even mentioned us needing a plan... or had any advice whatsoever that I could see. I dunno, he may have had some sage advice in there, but I couldn't see it for the many layers of sarcasm and general rudeness.

 

[Dyret]

It's not really too weird that people are negative considering what happened to the last project that tried to add it all(WCU).

 

[Quarto]

Again, thanks for the advice. Now, unless you have anything for me aside from "you need a plan" (which we already have.), I'll be on my merry way.

Hehe, well, that's the basics of it... although I'm pretty sure I said more than that. In fact, I do believe I gave away the most important secret of successful fan project development - communication with the community.

PS: ChrisReid appears pretty damn negative. He hasn't even mentioned us needing a plan... or had any advice whatsoever that I could see. I dunno, he may have had some sage advice in there, but I couldn't see it for the many layers of sarcasm and general rudeness.

I suppose he didn't try to be polite because he was probably too busy laughing at the post where you implied that replying to our questions would delay your project . There's more to it than that, though - being rude to people setting up new fan projects is another important part of the process.

...No, really, I'm serious . See, amongst other things, we've seen a lot of people here along the years who'd announce a new project with a sort of "I've announced a project, now worship me!" attitude. Such people, when insulted and laughed at, naturally got all offended and ran away to cry in a corner - and good riddance, because they wouldn't get anywhere anyway. On the other hand, those who were actually serious about their projects immediately got the point, and got to work, simply assuming that they'll get respect when they prove they deserve it (which, incidentally, is also a reason why most serious fan projects are only announced after they've already done some work and have something to show - but it's too late for you to do that, so you'll have to live with our harassment ).

In short, don't worry about people being insulting and rude - it's all a part of the process. We simply need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Heck, look at some of the old UE-related news articles at the CIC. You'll notice a lot of them were exactly in this kind of tone - prior to UE's release, a lot of people simply didn't have confidence in any fan project, and rightly so. I didn't mind it (...we did actually have one or two ugly conflicts with the CIC, but they were related to entirely different things) - heck, reading news updates about "the Scimitar Project" just made me more determined to show that UE has more going for it than a bunch of different Scimitar models. So those mild insults were without a doubt one of the factors that helped UE get through to completion.