Wing Commander Entire Series Modern Machines

Raul2106

Raul2106

Spaceman
Ya know... I been thinking long and hard about this. I can't for the life of me understand why with today's technology Wing Commander 1-Prophecy have not been reformatted and upgraded for modern PCs and counsels? I'm talking PS3 & XBOX360. Let me explain Wing Commander III-Wing Commander Prophecy where all shot on film like movies. With Blu Ray specifically a Wing Commander Legacy Collection could easily be released with updated HD graphics for the inflight game sequences for all titles. Not to mention the video for Wing Commander III, IV and Prophecy would look absolutely stunning remastered for Blu Ray. I thought about how Wing Commander I & II could also get the HD treatment without really altering either of the games much. Maybe have voice actors come in and record if the voice acting tracks were not available anymore? Considering Wing Commander had voice acting done for both the Sega CD release & Super Wing Commander, porting the classic games over to modern video game counsels could probably be completed rather easily and within a limited budget. I love that GOG is currently releasing the classics for play on modern PCs. However, EA is really missing out on the Wing Commander cash cow. Updating the games for modern systems would seem like a no brainer! Especially if a new game is indeed in the works. I've always been baffled with at least from my perspective the 3D0 version of Wing Commander III is the best way to enjoy the title. 3D0 did not have the benefit of DVD technology. Yet the game still holds up very well and when I feel like playing Wing Commander III even considering what a pain it is to have to reconnect 3D0 that is the option I always go for. Once again I am brought back to how Wing Commander III set the standard for interactive movie titles and and shattered sales records. If the marketing team over at EA really stopped and thought this through HD versions of the games could most definitely make them a fortune. The DVD version of Wing Commander IV really needs to see the light of day again. A PS3 release could be simply beautiful finally doing justice to the game. As a fan I look at the $5.99 GOG releases and smile but I just feel like Wing Commander is a better franchise that deserves to be respected in the modern day. Thoughts?
 
The problem is that wing commander 3 can't really be done in HD properly. Wing Commander IV could be, assuming that the original 35mm film is still available. If it is then it could be converted to 1080p HD quite easily since the analogue to digital transfer process is well known and the original footage had the resolution needed. That said, EA would have to be interested in doing the conversion and they might not see enough of a justification money-wise to doing so. I'd love to see a 1080p transfer of Prophecy and WCIV's footage and higher resolution versions of the games. I think Wing Commander 1/2 realistically couldn't be made HD without complete remakes. WC3 is a much harder one to call. You could re-render all the background information to look nice and HD, but I don't think you'd be able to get the tape footage of the actors to look very good.
 
Wing3 would probably look no better then the upscaled 3DO versions, if you re-render the backgrounds to HD-levels, the actors would look smeared, as if they were ghosts.
The games could probably best be ported without upgrades(save WC4/WCP DVD movies) to XBL or PSN.
Maybe this will happen if the games sell real good on GOG. And the voices of the SegaCD version are really not that great.
 
The big problem is that the resources to do this just don't exist anymore--EA doesn't have an archive with the Wing Commander source code or the uncompressed movie files or the 3D models the ships were based on.
 
Not to mention the huge issues with getting old dos-based game code to work with current-gen systems... its not just a question of re-drawing the art, its that the language used has just changed so much over the years, that 'converting' all that old code in the flight engine might really be just as hard as writing it from scratch (disclaimer: I am not a programmer. I just know/worked with a bunch of them, and am basing my opinion on multiple experiences of both myself & others). Look at all the work its taken to get PS2 Shadow of the Colossus & Ico remastered to PS3 - and thats just 1 hardware iteration!

Unfortunately, what we would most likely get is something like Dosbox... and that would be reinventing the wheel a little huh? Sad to say, its my opinion that we are more likely to see a NEW Wing Commander before we see fully remastered versions of the originals. But I ask this question: which would you prefer? I know what I would!!! (totally required 3 exclamation marks)

PS - I'd love to be proven wrong & have to eat these words.
 
The 3Do version of Wing Commander III kinda shoots the theory of complex coding in the foot. I don't buy that for a second. I would like to see a new Wing Commander game too but the classics are too good to be forgotten. Wing Commander IV & Prophecy would probably be the most likely remasters but I don't know. We have to remember that both Wing Commander III & IV were also released on PS1. Those were not straight up DOS conversions either. I'm not discounting the fact that in game graphics would have to be redone. That has been the case with many video games being updated. Certainly the project wouldn't be impossible. If Wing Commander 1 & 2 can have Super Nintendo ports than a modern upgrade should be a cakewalk.
 
The resources that were used to create the ports in 1995 don't exist anymore--the companies that developed these games were closed and everything was junked. There's no way to go back to the source code and recompile Wing Commander III today... EA just doesn't have that option.
 
The fact that GOG has just released 1-3 proves that certain resources must still exist. These are not games made from 1978. These are multimillion dollar projects that made big money. If EA wanted to do it they could. If fans can upscale Wing Commander Prophecy videos to HD isn't it conceivable for EA?
 
The fact that GOG has just released 1-3 proves that certain resources must still exist. These are not games made from 1978. These are multimillion dollar projects that made big money. If EA wanted to do it they could. If fans can upscale Wing Commander Prophecy videos to HD isn't it conceivable for EA?
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The GOG releases are the original games running in DOSBox--no new code. EA didn't even have retail copies of the game available for GOG, they had to ask fans. :)

Fans didn't upscale Wing Commander Prophecy... we tracked down the man who ran the company that was hired to develop the DVD version of Wing Commander Prophecy and convinced him to give us a copy of the unreleased game. That's what we extracted the video from.
 
I Just tried anDOSXbox-port to my console for wing commander 1&2 DOS versions, and using anisotropic hardware filtering it holds up on a 42" TV(Who is upscaling it from 480I composite. It holds up pretty okay(I also tried the MegaCD and SNES versions on thesame setup but they look worse, though on a handheld they'll be good enough i guess). I can't run the 3DO version of WC3 on it, but the PSX(in PCSXBOX) version is playable, however the movie footage is "washed", the DOS version is even worse.. Maybe, with some real heavy editing the movies could be polished up(rescaled, pallette expension, dithering). Wing4 is on the PSN, and it looks good(and that's not even the DVD version).

I do agree with releasing a new title, but if it's possible to port the classics to current consoles(X360/PS3/New WII), there would be a chance for old fans to relive the experience and new people to get to know the franchise and background while the new title is in development(even if they are working on it now, I don't expect a release within two years), the numbers on purchases from the classic could attract investors. And I'm probably not the only wing commander fan who'd rather just press the start button and play instead of jury-rigging complete setups just to play a game.
 
Mahak said:
Not to mention the huge issues with getting old dos-based game code to work with current-gen systems... its not just a question of re-drawing the art, its that the language used has just changed so much over the years, that 'converting' all that old code in the flight engine might really be just as hard as writing it from scratch (disclaimer: I am not a programmer. I just know/worked with a bunch of them, and am basing my opinion on multiple experiences of both myself & others). Look at all the work its taken to get PS2 Shadow of the Colossus & Ico remastered to PS3 - and thats just 1 hardware iteration!
Click to expand...

Yes and no ;).

Since both the WC1 and WC3 code is most likely written in C or C++ (as seen in the two source code screnshots), it could be easily ported to other systems as well. The main question is: how much Dos-specific hacks are included in the code.

The problem with the PS2 to PS3 code is: Those are two totally different consoles (as proven by the complex downward compatibility system of the PS3....or not-so complex, since they just built a whole PS2 inside of the PS3) with completely different approaches. As seen with the Monkey Island Remakes, it is possible to build a game for a modern system on top of the old engine.

BUT I do believe, that WC1 and 3 are different stories, since they pushed the boundaries of the technology of the time so hard. And EA does not have the resources anymore. I believe, that the CIC is EAs largest Wing Commander archive ;).
 
Even a rebuilt Wing Commander 1&2 should be possible. The point is that there are enough resources available to rebuild the games on modern counsels. They won't be exactly the same as we remember but enough of the classic elements will be there. Looking at the Super Nintendo versions specifically sure they had to create new engines and such but in today's gaming world it's possible. Everybody remembers the port of Wing Commander EA did for the PSP right? Just sayin'...
 
Just because it SHOULD be possible, doesn't mean it is. As Loaf said, all those previous ports relied on the source code being present... which is now lost. I just can't fathom how you would do it without the source files (both code & art). By reverse engineering what is there? Legality notwithstanding, thats an insane amount of work for a professional developer to invest in, for what would be seen as little gain.

Does anyone know how they did the wing commander port for PSP? Did they do it without the source code? Or was it emulated somehow?
 
The CIC does have the WC1 and WC3 source code. The lost art source (or movie source in that case) is indeed a problem. Bottom line: It would be a lot of work.

The PSP-Version of Wing Commander is just the SNES-Version emulated, as far as I know.
 
You are correct--"EA Replay" is actually a SNES/Genesis emulator with a set of ROMs.

Interestingly, they did bother to hex edit into Wing Commander and Secret Missions to blank out the credit for Mindscape from the intro!
 
You are correct--"EA Replay" is actually a SNES/Genesis emulator with a set of ROMs.

Interestingly, they did bother to hex edit into Wing Commander and Secret Missions to blank out the credit for Mindscape from the intro!
 
I shudder to think of someone going through every line of code and fixing every single broken entry when trying to debug on a modern system... Head-a-splode. Even C++ has differences in syntax from year to year!
 
Mahak said:
I shudder to think of someone going through every line of code and fixing every single broken entry when trying to debug on a modern system... Head-a-splode. Even C++ has differences in syntax from year to year!
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I'm pretty sure they have tools to automatically handle that kind of stuff. All in all, while code is of course an issue, it's ultimately the least significant problem. The problems with assets are far more crucial.
 
[volunteers again, hand waving in the air] Yeah a good tool writer would surely have some kind of way to do it. I actually can't see the art assets being too much of an issue with wc1/2 stuff, given how simple they are (by today's standards). Wc3/4, a completely different story. [hand down for that]

Its funny, when I first read the start of this thread I was all "No WAY! There is no possible chance this could happen!" but now with all this discussion, revelations about the source code and some knowledgeable input, it really does seem like something within reach! Weird. I take it all back, Raul. I don't see why not either. Personally I could see it in an iPhone/iPad genre, given that all the art assets were designed to be visually legible on low-resolution, small (14 inch or so) CRT screens of the time.

I guess the legal aspect is really the biggest hurdle of them all. Boo, lawyers!
 
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