Secret Ops certainly expands on Prophecy in quite a similar fashion to The Secret Missions 1 & 2. I don't understand how this would be a problem caused by younger generations though. I feel it does have to do with Wing Commander as expansions were one of it's strongest points and from what I seen influenced many other games from it's role with expansions.
Wing commander 6 - possible story
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The first problem is purely classificatory -- it doesn't make sense to decide, sight unseen, that certain games are full releases and some are addons. Danger lies that way -- in deleting reason from your system of organization, you end up with a bunch of tinpot dictators and Brazilians insisting that whatever unreasonable thing they've decided must be right regardless of evidence. That's not how you organize anything.
What's more, though, there's no reason for it. Why should WCSO be an addon? As more intelligent people than I have pointed out in this thread, it doesn't add on to anything... but beyond that, Origin doesn't call it one. Secret Missions, Crusade, Special Ops 1 & 2, Tactical Operations, Righteous Fire, Forge of Virtue, Silver Seed, Lost Vale and so on are all expansion packs not only because they expand on a larger game, but also because that's what they're sold as. Secret Ops *wasn't* developed or sold that way - it doesn't make sense to insist that in your private little universe it secretly is. (Think of the Ultimas I just listed -- why is Serpent Isle a new game but Forge of Virtue not? There's your answer.)
The biggest problem is that people insist on the label in order to demean the game. It isn't worthwhile, it's just "an addon". That's a load -- Secret Ops was a very, very important release. It was a pioneering game for a genre that is *only now* being appreciated. WCSO invented the episodic game... years and years before SiN and Half Life and before companies could make ten million dollars selling extra Halo maps. Not only that, but it actually *does* continue the story in exactly the same way as Wing Commander 2 or Wing Commander 3 did. Secret Ops deserves our respect, not our petty idiocy.
What's more, though, there's no reason for it. Why should WCSO be an addon? As more intelligent people than I have pointed out in this thread, it doesn't add on to anything... but beyond that, Origin doesn't call it one. Secret Missions, Crusade, Special Ops 1 & 2, Tactical Operations, Righteous Fire, Forge of Virtue, Silver Seed, Lost Vale and so on are all expansion packs not only because they expand on a larger game, but also because that's what they're sold as. Secret Ops *wasn't* developed or sold that way - it doesn't make sense to insist that in your private little universe it secretly is. (Think of the Ultimas I just listed -- why is Serpent Isle a new game but Forge of Virtue not? There's your answer.)
The biggest problem is that people insist on the label in order to demean the game. It isn't worthwhile, it's just "an addon". That's a load -- Secret Ops was a very, very important release. It was a pioneering game for a genre that is *only now* being appreciated. WCSO invented the episodic game... years and years before SiN and Half Life and before companies could make ten million dollars selling extra Halo maps. Not only that, but it actually *does* continue the story in exactly the same way as Wing Commander 2 or Wing Commander 3 did. Secret Ops deserves our respect, not our petty idiocy.
It has my upmost respect but I enjoy discussions on Wing Commander and similar topics. As for Wing Commander Secret Ops category I accept it as Wing Commander Secret Ops and how it fits into the full storyline as a whole but I also accept that it can be placed as a expansion through looking at different definitions. Which is right? I couldn't really say but I thought it would make for a good discussion or at least an interesting one. I don't know why you have an analogy between dictators and classification. Many classifications fall into similar problems such as anatomy or music. As for it demeaning through classification I can say I never felt a classification to demean anything and I don't understand the problem there at all.
Delance
Victory, you say?
Well, Origin dropped the use of numbers with Prophecy, so I wonder what's the point. Anyway, I remember Origin can get creative about numbering, just think about Ultima VII part II: Serpent Isle.
The criteria for this is rather subjective. WCSO continues the story where WCP left off, but was not named WCP II. On the other hand, Privateer II has a new story with new characters and a new setting than Privateer. Even more interestingly are Ultima Underworld II and Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams.
The criteria for this is rather subjective. WCSO continues the story where WCP left off, but was not named WCP II. On the other hand, Privateer II has a new story with new characters and a new setting than Privateer. Even more interestingly are Ultima Underworld II and Ultima: Worlds of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
There aren't different definitions, though. You're making things up for absolutely no reason.
Not having a solid system by which to organize things is antithetical to the concept of classification. In games -- as in music or anatomy -- the goal is always to create a more and more stringent system of measurement over time, not to invent some new touchy-feely one that has no basis in anything.
Really? Ever heard this one? We could listen to what they think -- except they're just a bunch of liberals.
We could take Secret Ops seriously... except it's just an addon.
No! NO NO NO! You idiots! This is the problem with you people! There is absolutely nothing SUBJECTIVE about what is and is not an addon! Figuring it out is as easy as measuring how long something is or deciding whether or not something is a tiger.
I made nothing up and I'm unsure how viewing in different manners opposes classification. The basis is in mainly the game engine but as well the storyline and I wish I had invented it but I have no credentials to do anything of the sort so I just read up on it and ponder and put forth ideas.
I'm unsure again why you are making an analogy on liberals and add-ons. I take Secret Ops very seriously as a game. If it's considered an expansion does that makes it a worse game. Certainly by no means does it. If it's considered a stand alone does it make it better. Certainly no. The game is what made it great not it's classification.
As for it being subjective, we have proven it right here in this thread that it is. There are varying definitions and are being applied in different manners. It has no certain dimensions or species, genus and family.
I'm unsure again why you are making an analogy on liberals and add-ons. I take Secret Ops very seriously as a game. If it's considered an expansion does that makes it a worse game. Certainly by no means does it. If it's considered a stand alone does it make it better. Certainly no. The game is what made it great not it's classification.
As for it being subjective, we have proven it right here in this thread that it is. There are varying definitions and are being applied in different manners. It has no certain dimensions or species, genus and family.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think you understand. I'm not discussing, I'm telling: Secret Ops is not an expansion pack, addon or mission disk.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Enoch said:
This is why semantics debates are not interesting and don't make good discussions. The point of LOAF's analogy was obvious. The fact that people can twist and distort things ad nauseam to keep a thread going doesnt prove anything.
And shame on the original poster for starting this horrible thread.
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