What Stupid Thing Did LOAF Buy on eBay Today?

[-danr-]

What stupid thing did LOAF buy today?

A sealed Mac WC3!

Outstanding, I've been looking for that in the UK for quite some time. It's everywhere on eBay US and someday I'll bite the bullet and pay the shipping. I hate Macs, and I want to put my disused craptop, err, iBook to use. Two questions if I may: Would you kindly quote me the system reqs? I've been struggling to find them online - and this is a 2002 iBook 366MHZ PowerPC

Also, the CIC guide lists the Mac WC3 as being identical to the PC release, but are there really no obvious differences?

Edit: Also, thanks. Asking Bandit LOAF questions at the CIC is kinda like consulting an encyclopedic oracle of Wing Commander knowledge. Often I think he's an asset utilized thanklessly. So, yeah, cheers.

 

[Iceblade]

Often I think he's an asset utilized thanklessly. So, yeah, cheers.

Oh I think everybody (well most everybody) can agree that Loaf is awesome - he's practically Wing Commander/Origin Savant.... Thank you Loaf for your tireless service to us wingnuggets.

It's just a real pity we can't hook Loaf's brain up to WCPedia.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Outstanding, I've been looking for that in the UK for quite some time. It's everywhere on eBay US and someday I'll bite the bullet and pay the shipping. I hate Macs, and I want to put my disused craptop, err, iBook to use. Two questions if I may: Would you kindly quote me the system reqs? I've been struggling to find them online - and this is a 2002 iBook 366MHZ PowerPC

I will get you the system requirements when I get home. For now, here are the ones from Wing Commander IV (from Origin's press release about the demo being available):

System Requirements for Wing Commander IV Macintosh:
Power Macintosh and 100% compatibles
System 7.1 or higher
8 MB RAM
46 MB of hard drive space
Double-speed CD-ROM drive or faster
Mouse
GRAPHICS: Standard 256-color (640x480 resolution required)

I know exactly what you're getting at, though, as I'm also on my way to throwing together an old Mac for the Wing Commander ports. I had a good conversation with Dundradal on #WingNut about this recently and... I can't recall the specifics, but the trick is finding a Mac with the right operating system more than it is finding one that meets some particular hardware limitation. OSX does not run any of the old games... but 7, 8 and 9 do (I *think*). I seem to recall that we picked out the 'best' model old Mac for the games, too, and I will figure out what that was for you.

If you're going whole hog, these games also supported the Mac Thrustmaster setup (Flight, Weapons and Rudder).

Also, the CIC guide lists the Mac WC3 as being identical to the PC release, but are there really no obvious differences?

That's what I'm going to find out! I was not a Mac person back in the day and I only ever played these ports on a friend's computer--my memory is that the gameplay was identical and the only difference was different menu for the save system... but I intend to study them more closely soon.

Edit: Also, thanks. Asking Bandit LOAF questions at the CIC is kinda like consulting an encyclopedic oracle of Wing Commander knowledge. Often I think he's an asset utilized thanklessly. So, yeah, cheers.

That's kind of you to say! I really wish I had more time for Wing Commander.

It's just a real pity we can't hook Loaf's brain up to WCPedia.

Ah, I think they tried that with the Bioforgepedia...

 

[Iceblade]

Ah, I think they tried that with the Bioforgepedia...

Yeah, I think dollhousepedia tried that as well, but Elisha Dushku kept crashing their servers whenever she was plugged.

 

[-danr-]

I will get you the system requirements when I get home. For now, here are the ones from Wing Commander IV (from Origin's press release about the demo being available)

That's great, the system can hack IV from what you've written. Will look forward to your info on III, but absolutely no rush - your mere attention to it is most appreciated.

OSX does not run any of the old games... but 7, 8 and 9 do (I *think*). I seem to recall that we picked out the 'best' model old Mac for the games, too, and I will figure out what that was for you.

That will be interesting, I'm currently on OSX as per standard with the iBook of that era - incidentally its from 1999, not 2002, the latter being the year I gave up and replaced it

That's kind of you to say! I really wish I had more time for Wing Commander.

No false modesty MAJOR! You're entitled to be proud of what you've done!

 

[Dundradal]

It's just a real pity we can't hook Loaf's brain up to WCPedia.

It's actually pretty close to that. When working on articles we usually have a good discussion going in #wingnut to make sure we don't forget any small mentions. LOAF has a great memory for this stuff and reminds me of things I might overlook in writing articles.

More of you should drop by #wingnut as most nights (Eastern Standard Time) there are a few of us chatting about WC or something else as awesome.

That will be interesting, I'm currently on OSX as per standard with the iBook of that era - incidentally its from 1999, not 2002, the latter being the year I gave up and replaced it

We were actually talking about this last week. The earliest versions of X have an OS 9 environment you can boot within X. However, I remember it didn't work well with SWC (color palette was messed up). Later versions of OS 9 would be the best for running the Mac WCs.

I recommended to LOAF he get a PowerMac 9600 since it will run OS9 very well and is the fastest PowerMac of the pre-OSX era.

 

[Madman]

ah, but at least when emulating a powerpc I found it often too fast for SWC

 

[Commissar]

Running WC on Mac

I can safely say that I've run both Wing Commander III and IV on an OS 9 Mac before, with great success! I actually have an original iMac that I use to run all my old Mac games - Myst, Riven, Diablo, Day of the Tentacle, TIE Fighter, and of course, Wing Commander III. I've also run WC III on a "Snow" iBook, the first run of the models that were white. I believe it had a 500mhz processor and an 8mb video card, vs. the iMac, which has a 333mhz processor and a 6mb video card. Both systems ran OS 9.2.2, and again, WC III and IV ran perfectly.

I *highly* recommend an iMac for old Mac gaming, as not only do most games work on it (at least, games from System 7 onward, since that's the time most games abandoned floppies for CD's) but the CRT screen gives you a much better picture than the iBook screen. The iBook LCD doesn't do too well with blacks, and needs to be viewed at a certain angle to avoid the colors looking washed-out. Powerbooks of the era likely had the same screen. In the WC games, of course, you spend a lot of time staring at the vastness of space, so the black values are important!

I also owned Super Wing Commander for the Mac years ago, and remember it working well, too. I think the only hitch I ever had with that one was running it in an emulator, where the emulation caused it to run too fast. This was actually pretty funny - the first cutscene, where Paladin is flying with another pilot, was only accellerated on minor animations, such as facial features. It made Paladin look like he was having a seizure, with his eyes rolling this way and that, and his mouth flapping non-stop. Good times!

I wish I could remember more about how SWC ran in Os 9.2.2, but it was at least five years ago, and I only tried it briefly. I remember enough about SWC to recall that I didn't like it nearly as much as the original game it was based on - something about the new suits, ships, and enemy designs just bugged me, you know? I'll take my WC the original way and like it!

Bottom line: if I were buying a machine for the sole purpose of playing Mac version Wing Commander games, I'd get a fruit-colored iMac. You'll likely pay more in shipping costs than you will for the actual computer, but if you look outside ebay, you can probably get one for about $20 or $30 in your neighborhood. I **highly** recommend it!

 

[Commissar]

And apologies for any typos above - it's past my bedtime. And a half

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I'm sorry, it's 10 AM on Monday already and I'm back at work. I have a very distinct memory of this inner monologue last night as I fell asleep in front of the TV:

LOAF, you need to get the WC3 specs for that guy on the forums.
But I'm so tired, I don't want to pick up my computer!
Just take a picture of the bottom of the box and do it at work!
But my phone isn't in my pocket!
Boooooooooo

Then I fell asleep.

I will get them tonight!

ah, but at least when emulating a powerpc I found it often too fast for SWC

That is worrisome--can you expand on that? Which system were you emulating a PowerPC on?

Bottom line: if I were buying a machine for the sole purpose of playing Mac version Wing Commander games, I'd get a fruit-colored iMac. You'll likely pay more in shipping costs than you will for the actual computer, but if you look outside ebay, you can probably get one for about $20 or $30 in your neighborhood. I **highly** recommend it!

Thanks for your (detailed!) comments. Pre-OSX Macs are a huge mystery to me and so I want to be very careful about getting a system that will run all three Wing Commander games (and, what the heck, System Shock too!).

 

[Bandit LOAF]

MACINTOSH: Power Macintosh(tm)/Macintosh(tm) with PowerPC (tm) upgrade.
REQUIRED: PowerPC, L2 Cache Card, 8MB RAM (5.25MB RAM free, additional .5MB RAM free for music), double-speed CD drive, mouse, hard disk (25MB free), color monitor with 8-bit (256-color) graphics (640x480), System 7.1 or higher.
RECOMMENDED: 16MB RAM, joystick

 

[Commissar]

!

Whooo, System Shock! I'll be fair about the iMac, in regards to 3D gaming - it ain't great. The original run of the iMac had either 4MB or 6MB (yes, 6) of video memory, which I think is barely enough for the 'Shock. While the iMac should *slay* the three Wing Commander games, I know for a fact it gets pokey with both Quake III and Rainbow Six.

Granted, those two games are a little more recent than System Shock, but I wouldn't expect the world in regards to the iMac's 3D capability.

Let me steer you here, LOAF - http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_333.html

This site is an excellent resource for older Macs! And no, I don't work for them / troll for them / anything like that, but I have used them as a resource several times in the past while buying an OS 9 - era Mac. The page I linked to has stats for the old iMac, but links on the left side of the page will give you info on G3 Powerbooks and Powermacs, as well. G3 Powermacs (the blue and white towers - remember that funky color combo???) support OS 9, and are much more powerful than the iMac. Heck, I think the first batch of G4 Powermacs support OS 9, too!

The last thing to keep in mind (and I apologize for going on a rant here, but I'm honestly trying to help ^_^ ) is the version of OS 9 listed with each model of computer. EveryMac will list the original OS with each machine it describes, as well as the maximum OS. Make sure the machine you buy lists its default OS as something prior to OS 9.2.2. Anything machine that came with OS 9.2.1 or earlier can accept a clean install of OS 9 via retail install discs. In other words, you can pick up an old retail copy of OS 9 and install it, cleanly, on any Mac from 9.2.1 on back. Macs that list 9.2.2 as the default had both OS 9 and OS X installed from the factory, and *require* the original system restore discs to allow OS 9 to be re-installed. These discs are a pain to find, believe me - I've thrown away hundreds on ebay looking for discs to match systems I've owned, and they only work properly about a quarter of the time.

For me, picking up a retail copy of OS 9.2.1 was one of the wisest decisions I've ever made, computer-wise. I can't tell you how many times I've zapped (and re-zapped!) the old iMac hard drive with it, and it works every time. It makes me long for the good ol' days where backing up and formatting a hard drive wasn't a total nightmare, you know?

Anyway, I hope all the info helps! Good luck machine shopping, and I hope you find you dream model soon!