What I hate
- Thread starter time.pilot
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Yeah, that figure applies to WC1 era fighters... Privateer takes place in '69, the same time as Armada and WC3.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Once again, there is a huge difference between MilSpec and CivSpec...
The Centurion is a big space car. It's like a Toyota in space. You can nail shotguns to it if you want.
The Rapier II is a big space F-18. It's armed with advanced missiles and high-powered guns that would very, very easily make mince-meat of a Toyota.
Now, the Centurion may seem equivalent to the Rapier II -- but that's only because they're not of the same era...
The Centurion is a big space car. It's like a Toyota in space. You can nail shotguns to it if you want.
The Rapier II is a big space F-18. It's armed with advanced missiles and high-powered guns that would very, very easily make mince-meat of a Toyota.
Now, the Centurion may seem equivalent to the Rapier II -- but that's only because they're not of the same era...
mpanty
Keen Commander
Okay, I finally get the picture. In the same era, 200,000 credits for a Centurion is ok... considering that the WC3 era fighters are better.
(Humm, still I have doubts that a Hellcat might be better than a Centurion, I think the Centurion would wipe it to bits. Perhaps a difference in shields...)
But what I asked was: you said a fighter costs 100,000,000 credits. What fighter are you thinking of?
I assume each WC3 era fighter has a different cost.
And more importantly, do we have any figures for the costs of WC1 and 2 fighters (e.g. from Claw Marks)???
(Humm, still I have doubts that a Hellcat might be better than a Centurion, I think the Centurion would wipe it to bits. Perhaps a difference in shields...)
But what I asked was: you said a fighter costs 100,000,000 credits. What fighter are you thinking of?
I assume each WC3 era fighter has a different cost.
And more importantly, do we have any figures for the costs of WC1 and 2 fighters (e.g. from Claw Marks)???
Well the 100mil is possibly/probably an exageration. Halcyon is merely reminding his pilot that they don't like pilots ejecting just 'cos their paint is scratched.
They probably wouldn't complain too much if it was justified - better to lose a ship then a ship AND a fully trained pilot - just if they felt you could have got the ship home in (more or less) one piece.
And mpanty, a Hellcat would whoop a Centurion's pasty white ass any day. It packs over 8 times the firepower, 5 times the armor and much smaller and more manouvreable. The Centurion only feels so much better because it is up against antiquated and underpowered opponents. Against a main fleet Confed or Kilrathi fighter of the same era it wouldn't stand a chance.
Also, remember that the 200,000 cred bill for a Centurion is only for the airframe. By the time you've stuck those Tachyons, Level 3 Engine & Shields, advanced radar, repair bot, gun cooler, etc. etc. on it you're significantly higher than that. If you say 1-2mil for a decent Centurion and 50-100mil for a Confed fighter, the comparison is believeable.
They probably wouldn't complain too much if it was justified - better to lose a ship then a ship AND a fully trained pilot - just if they felt you could have got the ship home in (more or less) one piece.
And mpanty, a Hellcat would whoop a Centurion's pasty white ass any day. It packs over 8 times the firepower, 5 times the armor and much smaller and more manouvreable. The Centurion only feels so much better because it is up against antiquated and underpowered opponents. Against a main fleet Confed or Kilrathi fighter of the same era it wouldn't stand a chance.
Also, remember that the 200,000 cred bill for a Centurion is only for the airframe. By the time you've stuck those Tachyons, Level 3 Engine & Shields, advanced radar, repair bot, gun cooler, etc. etc. on it you're significantly higher than that. If you say 1-2mil for a decent Centurion and 50-100mil for a Confed fighter, the comparison is believeable.
mpanty
Keen Commander
Well ok, if you're thinking about shields and armour, since I did not have the figures, I believe you.
And you must be right for the generators as well, perhaps the Hellcat's blasters recharge more quickly (though I don't recall that).
However, I don't think an Hellcat could do more damage than a Centurion: remember that the Centurion bears 4 gun racks, 4 plasmas if you want, even 4 fusion cannons!! And those are simply better than the two lasers and two ions the Hellcat has...
Uhm... you're talking about an advanced Centurion... the ones from Righteous Fire? I still had the figures of Privateer in mind...
Even with full upgrades, I don't think you go beyond the 600,000 credits for a fully equipped Centurion (considering two Tachyons and two Plasmas maybe).
LOAF, is there a list of the Priv1 and 2 costs of the ships, their upgrads etc. etc. available?
If not, is there a noble soul willing to do one?
[Edited by mpanty on 06-07-2001 at 18:43]
Nope. Because a military laser does nearly 5x the damage per hit and 7.5x the damage per second of a civilian (privateer) Tachyon.
Military Laser : 18cm damage /0.25s refire = 72cm/s
Civilian Laser : 2.5cm damage /0.30s refire = 8.3cm/s
Military Tachyon : 70cm damage /0.35s refire = 200cm/s
Civilian Tachyon : 3.8cm damage /0.40s refire = 9.5cm/s
mpanty
Keen Commander
Erm... I must disagree on that general rule, though the figures you give me are most probably true...
If it was true, then the Privateer Confed Broadswords and Stilettos would rip you apart...
Ok then, I finally got it:
-A Hellcat kicks a Centurion's ass
-A Centurion kicks a Broadsword's ass
Many thanks for the figures AzraeL!
Small correction ...
-A Hellcat kicks a Centurion's ass
-A Centurion kicks a Gemini Sector Broadsword's ass
The Confed & Kilrathi ships are way underpowered in Privateer.
WC Universe explanation -
Gemini is a backwater hole, lightly guarded by the dregs of the Confed fleet. They are equipped with outdated ships & weapons - probably the equivalent of the national guard. Note that the 'new' ships given to the Retros are Kilrathi Salthi - a WC1 era ship probably over 10 years out of service with the main Kat fleet.
More likely explanation -
People who buy Privateer get real annoyed about having to reload the game every time they run into a single Kilrathi Dralthi
[Edited by AzraeL on 06-07-2001 at 19:45]
mpanty
Keen Commander
Ehm... again, have to disagree...
Are you telling me that the WC2 Broadswords are different than the Privateer Broadswords? Well it's wrong! From the CIC Ships Database:
See? The armor from the Privateer Broadsword is actually better than the WC2 Broadsword armor. Which automatically means the Centurion is better than any WC Broadsword (except maybe the movie ones
).That I agree with! The WC3 fighters, from the figures you've provided, would kick the Privateer ships' asses pretty bad, but the Centurion kicks the butt of any WC2 fighter and downwards...
[Edited by mpanty on 06-07-2001 at 20:01]
The real difference is in the weapon power. Military weapons (even from WC1&II) are much more powerful than civilian ones (Privateer) (see my previous posts). The three mass drivers on a WCII Broadsword give it a damage of nearly 12x a 4xTachyon Centurion. The Broadsword is also noted more for its strong shields then its armor (the Sabre actually has better front/rear armor then the Broadsword, but worse shields). Unfortunately the Privateer stats don't give any comparison between military and civilian shield strengths.
The real question is why the Confed ships in Privateer are using the civilian standard weapons instead of the military ones from WC1-IV. My only answer to that is to see my previous post
The real question is why the Confed ships in Privateer are using the civilian standard weapons instead of the military ones from WC1-IV. My only answer to that is to see my previous post
mpanty
Keen Commander
Wha...? No way!! The figures are right under your eyes!! The WC2 Broadsword has a thinner armor than the Privateer Broadsword!! Period!
Now don't tell me that it has a worse armor but better guns! I won't buy that!
Who cares? For this case, we're only concerned by absolute figures: the Privateer Broadsword simply has a better armor!
Wha...? All the Confed ships are under military standard!! It's not because they're sending obsolete ships to Gemini that they are also underrated!! That would make Confed look really bad!
No, instead they just send old ships, such as Broadswords instead of Arrows, Hellcats or Thunderbolts (since Priv takes place in the WC3 era), and that's that!
Don't try to argue by any means necessary that the Priv ships are inferior to all Confed ships, 'cause that's not true!
[Edited by mpanty on 06-07-2001 at 20:38]
It's simple mathematics.
WC2 Broadsword :
3 Mass Drivers x 45cm damage / 0.3s refire rate = 450cm/s
Priv Centurion :
4 Tachyons x 3.8cm damage / 0.4s refire rate = 38cm/s
The Privateer Broadsword has thicker armor. I guess the question is what type? Tungsten, Plasteel, Durasteel, other?
[Edited by AzraeL on 06-07-2001 at 21:25]
100 Million..
The quote is probably an exaggeration... but.. also consider the cost of shipping a new fighter to the front.. the transport's crew.. the other transports that had to be dispatched to get it to the transport heading out to the front lines.. the escorts needed to protect the transport (which is now really really valuable), shaking the fighter down, painting it...
The quote is probably an exaggeration... but.. also consider the cost of shipping a new fighter to the front.. the transport's crew.. the other transports that had to be dispatched to get it to the transport heading out to the front lines.. the escorts needed to protect the transport (which is now really really valuable), shaking the fighter down, painting it...
mpanty
Keen Commander
Nein, I still don't buy that!
45cm damage for a mass driver? Compared to 3.8 cm? Ok, the figures are right, but how about this:
Privateer Plasma gun: damage 7.2cm
Wing 2 Laser cannon: damage 18cm (!!!)
Okay, the weapons may be a bit more powerful for military craft, but how can a laser cannon be more powerful than a Plasma cannon?!!
And also, how about this: you say (or someone else does, doesn't matter) that the weapons in Privateer are inferior because Gemini is a backwater sector or something...
Yet, look at the figures for the Laser Cannon throughout the WC games (except Privateer): the penetration has never changed!!
WC1 Laser cannon, damage: 18cm
WC2 Laser cannon, damage: 18cm
WC3 Laser cannon, damage: 18cm
WC4 Laser cannon, damage: 18cm
WCP Laser cannon, damage: 18cm
But somehow, it does change for Privateer...
I don't buy that. The way I see it, is that Confed sent obsolete Broadswords to the Gemini sector, as MILITARY craft, because it was okay: they were obsolete. Why would they bother in changing the mass drivers? In does not make sense!
And especially, why are the armor values higher in Privateer??? In makes even less sense!!
[Edited by mpanty on 06-08-2001 at 00:16]