Weapons question

Count me in the camp of people who stopped caring about the different guns after they had too many (circa WC3 on). Except when flying a Banshee or something in Prophecy with a charging mass, standard operating procedure pretty much became to start every mission with F and then CTRL-G.

I thought the developers had a nice balance in WC1 and WC2. Lasers did small damage but had long range and medium fire rate, neutrons did large damage but at short range and slow refire, mass drivers split the difference, but made up for being "shorter than a laser and weaker than a neutron" by having a high refire rate.

Then WC2 introduced the particle cannon, which really gave the game a feeling of technological advancement--most of the guns were the familiar ones from WC1, but all of a sudden we had this new uber-gun which definitely made it feel like the game was in the same universe but about ten years later.

But then they were in a trap. Neutrons and lasers were essentially both obviated by the particle cannon, which left them with really only two guns, while (I understand...haven't actually played it) Armada introduced a whole slew of new guns that had to be maintained in the universe somehow. One thing I didn't like as much about WC3 was how all the guns ran together in my mind. Some of this may have been all the new types, some may have been the energy bolts from different guns looked so much more similar to one another than the little balls from WC1 and 2, but it just seemed like after WC2 the gun differences ceased to matter. In WC1, the Rapier's loadout felt different from the Raptor's because having lasers instead of mass drivers (in addition to the neutrons that both carried) gave it more range, but less damage and slower refire, so you had to be more of a marksman and change your flying style, but in WC3, all you knew was that the Hellcat did more damage than the Arrow, the Thud did more than either, and the Excalibur did the most of all..
 
Our of curiosity, is there every any explanation given of why Neutron guns in turrets fire so much faster (and apparently have longer range) than the fixed ones? I certainly could imagine that gun designs advance in time (the same way that "machine guns" used now are superior to "machine guns" from WWII, which are better than the "machine guns" from WWI). So maybe improvements to neutron gun designs helped them come back into service in later games.

Also, maybe advances in armor made different gun designs less effective through time. For example, we currently design bullets in a certain way, but as body armor gets better and better, you'll start to see bullets get redesigned to defeat body armor. Maybe late WC armors were tweaked to be more resistant to particle cannon fire...
 
Is there a similar chart for missiles?

Nope - it would be a good project, though...

Our of curiosity, is there every any explanation given of why Neutron guns in turrets fire so much faster (and apparently have longer range) than the fixed ones?

The Wing Commander II manual says: "Many of the heavier fighters are equipped with swivel-mounted neutron guns, to fend off enemy fighters during torpedo runs. These two guns are modified for a higher fire rate but shorter range."

Also, maybe advances in armor made different gun designs less effective through time. For example, we currently design bullets in a certain way, but as body armor gets better and better, you'll start to see bullets get redesigned to defeat body armor. Maybe late WC armors were tweaked to be more resistant to particle cannon fire...

That's a good point - Victory Streak talks about how newly discovered Platolum is "nearly impregnable to laser devices and Durasteel shard bombardments".

Armada introduced a whole slew of new guns that had to be maintained in the universe somehow

Actually, the Armada guns didn't really go anywhere - most of them never appeared again (which is a shame, because the Sonic Accelerator Gun is hilarious). The game that did in guns was *Privateer*, which added a whole mess of them which have (mostly) been included in many later Wing Commanders (in fact, Privateer and Armada each add the same number of total guns to the continuity).

The gun issue is largely a case of developers folding to something fans *thought* they wanted. Everyone was always excited about new weapons, so why not give it to them? Making something complex isn't the same thing as making it fun.
 
I gotta say that the Neutron Gun had a beastly noise in WC2. You knew when that turret had you in it's sights, like on the gothri, Grikath, two or three good hits and you had no armor left wherever they connected.
 
But then they were in a trap. Neutrons and lasers were essentially both obviated by the particle cannon, which left them with really only two guns, while (I understand...haven't actually played it) Armada introduced a whole slew of new guns that had to be maintained in the universe somehow.

Actually, the Armada guns didn't really go anywhere - most of them never appeared again (which is a shame, because the Sonic Accelerator Gun is hilarious). The game that did in guns was *Privateer*, which added a whole mess of them which have (mostly) been included in many later Wing Commanders (in fact, Privateer and Armada each add the same number of total guns to the continuity).

Yeah, if you played Privateer, it managed to add a bunch of guns and get them to stick in people's mind a bit better. Having to work so much to earn each more and more expensive gun made them more memorable. And then those guns carry into WC3/4 and on, so Privateer players have a better time remembering those guns.
 
I found the Privateer version of the Particle cannon sort of useless. It gained very little range or refire speed over the Neutron cannon, and very little per-shot power over the Meson gun. For what you got you were better off sticking with Mesons or Neutrons until you could buy Tachyons.
 
What's the basic theory behind the tachyon gun? Aren't tachyons, supposedly if they exist, supposed to become more powerful the slower they travel? And so the tachyon gun slows the particles down before hurling them?
 
Yeah, if you played Privateer, it managed to add a bunch of guns and get them to stick in people's mind a bit better. Having to work so much to earn each more and more expensive gun made them more memorable. And then those guns carry into WC3/4 and on, so Privateer players have a better time remembering those guns.

In my opinion, apart from having some of the most ridiculous guns, the main problem in Armada was that they gave almost each gun a Kilrathi counterpart. Thus you had one guns twice with a different name and colour.
And I was personally put off that they made the Neutron gun a fast firing, weak long distance weapon. Just as I was put off by the WC3 Reaper gun.

It's really weird but I never had the feeling that Priv had too many guns - even though I used not really much of the, (MD, Particle, Neutron, Ionic Pulse and Plasma I only tried out for fun). Armada on the other hand always stuck in my mind as being silly in the gun compartment.

Priv2 was better than Armada but still, I found the gune to lack in personality.
And in WC3, Ion, Meson, Photon and Reaper were also rather the same to me. And the real "in-between" weapons, like the MD and Particle, were only used in rear turrets. Thank god for the Neutron Gun!
 
In my opinion, apart from having some of the most ridiculous guns,

Almost every gun is just a different colored laser pretty much. If you're going to have a bunch, might as well make up some crazy background for them.

the main problem in Armada was that they gave almost each gun a Kilrathi counterpart. Thus you had one guns twice with a different name and colour.

It's really weird but I never had the feeling that Priv had too many guns - even though I used not really much of the, (MD, Particle, Neutron, Ionic Pulse and Plasma I only tried out for fun). Armada on the other hand always stuck in my mind as being silly in the gun compartment.

Armada still only has five new guns, just like Privateer.

Priv2 was better than Armada but still, I found the gune to lack in personality.

Priv 2 is easy because you only have a few laser variants at first. Then the Mass Ion comes around and actually functions differently, and the amazing Kraven IV is a big milestone gun because it requires an FMV mission to unlock.

I found the Privateer version of the Particle cannon sort of useless. It gained very little range or refire speed over the Neutron cannon, and very little per-shot power over the Meson gun. For what you got you were better off sticking with Mesons or Neutrons until you could buy Tachyons.

Yeah, that's exactly the type of details people remember because of Privateer
 
I will say that I really liked one later gun addition: the charging mass from Prophecy. You could charge it up enough to take out most fighters in one or two hits, yet it wasn't insanely powerful because it took so long to charge to that point, that one miss, and you were better off just using full guns. But it was a nice tactical addition, and made me like the Tigershark a lot more...
 
Priv 2 is easy because you only have a few laser variants at first. Then the Mass Ion comes around and actually functions differently, and the amazing Kraven IV is a big milestone gun because it requires an FMV mission to unlock.

I don't mean to derail, but what was the point of carrying anything but Mass Ions?
 
little lasers + big cooling unit = happy NinjaLA, they had such a high refire rate that all you needed was a very maneuverable fighter and the enemy no longer stood a chance.
 
I don't mean to derail, but what was the point of carrying anything but Mass Ions?

Mass Ions weren't bad, but I'd go for four Kravens as soon as possible for the heavy punch (with a cooling unit, as NinjaLA pointed out).
 
Heh.

My first WC game was privateer, and I was overwhelmed with the number of different weapons on the civilian market. Because of this, I never really noticed the multiplicity of weapons in later games, and felt severely cramped in the earlier ones. When I eventually got WC1 through a special PC Games offer, the first time I sat in a Hornet, I was incredulous. 'Two LASER CANNONS? Are ya kiddin' me ? Where are my TACHYON GUNS?"

It didn't get any better when we moved up to the scimitar and -- instead of two lasers -- I now had two mass drivers. My previous experience was with the 'bullet' mass drivers of WCP and the mass drivers of Privateer, neither of which impressed me at all.

That was basically the same question I asked all the way through WC1, WC2, and the expansions until -- finally -- in WC3 the Excalibur finally came up with something close to the Centurion.

I guess my point is that I was thrown in on the deep end ... to me, having a multiplicity of guns was "normal". The paucity of weapons in the earlier versions severely cramped my style.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
 
Are Ion Cannons and Ionic Pulse Cannons just two different names for the same weapon or are they actually two different weapons?
 
I can't don't recall them being used side-by-side in the same product, but they seem to have fairly different roles where they are used. The IPC is usually a very high powered weapon while the regular Ion is typically pretty average. I don't think simply including the word "ion" absolutely ties the guns together. I think the Chain Ion is a relative of the plain Ion (as is the Scattergun), but the Mass Ion (no heat generation/energy recharge to worry about) is quite different.
 
I thought so but wasn't entirely sure because of all the 27th century Ion weapons, the Ion Cannon, the Ionic Pulse Cannon, the Chain Ion Cannon, and IIRC the Reaper Cannon, the Ionic Pulse Cannon is the only one never used alongside the Ion Cannon. You have Reaper Cannons and Ion Cannons both used in WC3, and Ion Cannons and Chain Ion Cannons in WCP: SO but Ion Cannons and Ionic Pulse Cannons are never both used in the same game.
 
Well theoretically, the Mass Driver shouldn't lose any damage energy over range, because it's firing a solid projectile. According to Wiki, and I know it's not totally accurate, but it describes a mass driver as a coil gun. Coil guns are simlar to rail guns, which if you're not familiar fire a magnetically accelerated round. In an atmosphere, or near large gravitational bodies, the round would tend to lose altitude and slow down at different rates, depending on the content of the atmosphere. But in open vacuum it should continue on forever until it strikes something or is drawn into a gravity well.

Yeah I know what a rail gun is... hmm well I'd have to agree with you, the only thing that would dissipate a mass driver would be slowing it down, and since there is no friction in space "An object in motion will remain in motion."

I gotta say that the Neutron Gun had a beastly noise in WC2. You knew when that turret had you in it's sights, like on the gothri, Grikath, two or three good hits and you had no armor left wherever they connected.

The Mass Driver (WC3/4) was worse. Two different noises, but they still sent chills down my spine when I had a ship carrying them coming at me.

Does anyone know when the "hayday" for the Photon Gun was? It seemed by WC3 they were being phased out, as we only see them on one ship.

Do we if the Photon gun on the Avenger was a different model?
 
Does anyone know when the "hayday" for the Photon Gun was? It seemed by WC3 they were being phased out, as we only see them on one ship.

Do we if the Photon gun on the Avenger was a different model?

Victory Streak says it was already very popular at the beginning of the War, so it is at least that old
 
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