WC4 ending

A

Avenger

Spaceman
just inquiring about the two different sucessful ending of wc4. i saw a video on youtube with an ending of paladin on the intrepid and then blair flies off.
i;ve played this game loads and loads of times and i've only ever had the ending where he becomes admiral and talks to hawk....is it different decisions you make? if so, what decisions make the paladin ending?

thanks
x
 
Simply by siding with either Hawk (an aggressor) or Panther (a Pacifist). Blair would end up as a trainer, as shown with Paladin, should you side with Panther more often than Hawk, and thus affect both character's morale.
 
Also there are some major events in the game like using the flash-bomb on either Ella or the Vesuvius, these majorly affect each characters morale and could push you towards one or the other when they're in a close-tie.
 
Yeah, if you chose to go to Speradon and flashpak Ella, you get the evil ending

if you chose to go to Circe and bypass Ella, you get the good ending

I always went to Speradon to get bearcats, so it took me a while to realize that there was another ending
 
As already mentioned, the final cutscene is based on whose morale is highest (Hawk or Panther). It's actually quite a bit more complex than any one decision. There are three major decisions between the two, which either give +1 Panther/-1 Hawk or +1 Hawk/-1Panther:

Hawk and Panther are arguing on the bridge: "There's always hope" vs. "We die trying"
Speradon or Circe: "Panther's right" vs. "Hawk's right."
Bypass or destroy Ella: "Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" vs. "Hawk's right, this is war"

Each character also has two conversations where you can effect *only* their morale:

Panther-
Panther at the bar: "She's dreaming" / "You'd think..."
Catscratch and Panther talking about fighting the Kilrathi: "Straighten this kid out" / "Do I look like I have all the answers?"

Hawk-
Did you enjoy fighting the Kilrathi?: "Gotta admit, I did" / "This guy is bloodthirsty"
Argument about the Kilrathi: "He's missing the point" / "Bitter guy"

... then, depending on which system you go to (Circe or Speradon), you get a second point to add or remove from the person you supported. These effect only the person you previously sided with (so they can either negate or double the number of points added to your choice).

Talk to Maniac or let Panther hurt him? "Maniac's on his own" / "Tempting, but I can't let that happen"
Talk to Maniac or let Hawk hurt him? "What a whiner" / "Time to be a captain"

... so, it's possible to attack Ella and go to Speradon, as long as you lower Hawk's morale at several other points to make up for it (and raise Panther's).
 
I never realized it was so complex... thinking about that only verifies what a great game IV was.
 
wow never seen it like that ~~~ and i thought i was an experienced "flyer" .

Thanks for your help everyone.

Just one last question, in the "evil" ending, does Blair turn bad? As i have never quite worked out from the conversation Hawk and Blair conversation at the end whether they were bad or not.

time to get a new joystick :)
 
It's not necessarily evil -- but that's the implication... he's using the same 'Black Lance' forces that Tolwyn did.
 
I have no problem calling it the evil path
Blair becoming the very thing he sought to root out of society

Like what happened to him [Hamill] when he cut off Darth Vader's hand in Return of the Jedi
 
I have no problem calling it the evil path
Blair becoming the very thing he sought to root out of society
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I think the problem there is that we just don't have enough information to say for sure. Lest we forget, Blair acheived his own fame and ended the Kilrathi War by working on a black ops mission. The mere existence of the Black Lance doesn't necessarily mean they're committing genocide somewhere.
 
That's true, but even if he did decide to put the Black Lance to better use, it's more like sending the SS or SA to a Red Cross parade than anything else.

If an argument for not using the Dragon afterwards is due to the negative association with bioweapons, then it should hold for those who flew the Dragons and unleashed the bioweapons on Telamon.
 
KoN21 said:
That's true, but even if he did decide to put the Black Lance to better use, it's more like sending the SS or SA to a Red Cross parade than anything else.

If an argument for not using the Dragon afterwards is due to the negative association with bioweapons, then it should hold for those who flew the Dragons and unleashed the bioweapons on Telamon.
Click to expand...

IIRC the reason for not using the Dragon's was that they were just too damn expensive to build and maintain. If they were much cheaper I think the association with Genocide would have been overlooked.

While the "Admiral" ending is not necessarily bad (power is all in how you use it) the reason it is considered "bad" comes from the presence of the Black Lance (who have committed war crimes) and the fact that Blair has replaced Tolwyn (who had been fully demonized by the end of the game): 1) as an admiral and 2) as head of the Black Lance.

Its also assumed that Blair had adopted Tolwyn's ideology (although there is no express evidence to support it). Blair's choices in getting the "bad" ending (agreeing with power over humanity [ie. Circe vs. Speradon]) are a validation of Tolwyn's beliefs that humanity must be made stronger and that the weak and helpless must be weeded out.

In contrast the "good" ending, "Flight Instructor," shows that Blair doesn't want to fight he just wants to fly and share the joy of flying with other people.
 
IIRC the reason for not using the Dragon's was that they were just too damn expensive to build and maintain. If they were much cheaper I think the association with Genocide would have been overlooked.
Click to expand...

While this is a prevalent, and possibly reasonable, explanation, it isn't actually written anywhere -- it's something a roleplaying club came up with to prevent their players from all flying the things. Ultimately, we don't even know that Lances *aren't* still used.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
While this is a prevalent, and possibly reasonable, explanation, it isn't actually written anywhere -- it's something a roleplaying club came up with to prevent their players from all flying the things. Ultimately, we don't even know that Lances *aren't* still used.
Click to expand...

Good to know it's not official. One of the reason's I was psyched about Prophecy was because I hoped to fly something like "Dragon Mk II," and I felt kinda cheated that I didn't even see regular Dragon's in the game (at least you saw Excalibur's in WC IV).

Maybe if WC VI/Prophecy 2 comes out there will be black-op missions and we'll get to fly the Dragon or an updated model.
 
Is it really an evil ending? I had the impression that, it wasn't all that evil. Its just that by making the tactical decisions rather than the humanitarian ones, you get a posting within the confleet higher ranks, away from all the action.

Hence the staring out into space whistfully. like Tolwyn did, they miss being on the line.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Ultimately, we don't even know that Lances *aren't* still used.
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It's like the old Dave Barry joke. You know you have cockroaches either because they scatter when you turn on the lights or you can't see them because they're hiding.
 
Striker6 said:
Is it really an evil ending? I had the impression that, it wasn't all that evil. Its just that by making the tactical decisions rather than the humanitarian ones, you get a posting within the confleet higher ranks, away from all the action.
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Yeah, I think that's the point we're getting at. At first glance it could be taken as such, but there's nothing about it that makes it necessarily bad. It could easily be the simple extension of Blair placing more emphasis on tactical objectives throughout the game.

Gamer8585 said:
Good to know it's not official. One of the reason's I was psyched about Prophecy was because I hoped to fly something like "Dragon Mk II," and I felt kinda cheated that I didn't even see regular Dragon's in the game (at least you saw Excalibur's in WC IV).

Maybe if WC VI/Prophecy 2 comes out there will be black-op missions and we'll get to fly the Dragon or an updated model.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that we did get to see an updated Excalibur in the sequel to Prophecy.

 
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Striker6 said:
Is it really an evil ending? I had the impression that, it wasn't all that evil. Its just that by making the tactical decisions rather than the humanitarian ones, you get a posting within the confleet higher ranks, away from all the action.

Hence the staring out into space whistfully. like Tolwyn did, they miss being on the line.
Click to expand...

I also never had the impression that it was an evil ending. I had the flight instructor ending when I first played through and when I found out there was an ending where he's a high ranking officer, I was upset that I didn't get that one. I played through and watched it and didn't think it was that bad. Yeah, the Black Lance is still there, but they may simply be an elite squadron that isn't genocidal. For all I know (please correct me if I'm wrong), the history of the Black Lance could go back decades and have such a positive impression that this dark genocidal splotch can be somewhat forgotten.
 
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