WC3 in the 2670s?

Wedge009

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
All long, long time ago, back when I was still a 'newbie', I thought I hallucinated service dates for fighters in WC3 on the load-out terminal, as in WC4. I was knocked about a bit for that, but a few months ago I found this little bit of text from one of the WC3 TREs (using HCl's TRE manager).

Notice the dates in the 2670s? Just what I saw in my 'hallucinations'. I'm really confused now, but I thought it'd be interesting to point it out.
 

Attachments

Wedge, good to see you are back.

That txt file is news to me man. I don't think it's the first wierd stuff we've seen (for example, False Colors referred to the Battle of Terra being "5 years ago" from 2670" and how Kruger "took the fleet to Terra in '66"), but I got a feeling it won't be the last.
 
File doesn't really load right for me.. But from what I can tell, Service Date must have to mean something else other than the day the ships go into service then. :)
 
Chris, you tried right-clicking to save it? That worked for me. But the text format is crap.

At least we know from that file that the Arrow was a "Light Fleet Defense Fighter" and the Hellcat was a "Medium Interceptor".
 
psych said:
Wedge, good to see you are back.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but it's probably more a case of being "back for bit, and then off again", I'm really trying to concentrate on my studies.

psych said:
But the text format is crap.
Click to expand...
That's the way the IFF was. IIRC, it was in the GAMEFLOW.TRE, if you want to verify it for yourself.
 
Ah,

Hey Wedge, were there anymore fun tidbits that were seen in the gameflow.TRE?
 
Hard to say. HCl describes WC3 and WC4 TREs as "XTREs" - his TRE manager doesn't extract stuff nicely from those games as with Privateer/Armada/WCP/SO. It's quite painful trying to find anything at all in WC3/4.
 
All long, long time ago, back when I was still a 'newbie', I thought I hallucinated service dates for fighters in WC3 on the load-out terminal, as in WC4. I was knocked about a bit for that, but a few months ago I found this little bit of text from one of the WC3 TREs (using HCl's TRE manager).

Notice the dates in the 2670s? Just what I saw in my 'hallucinations'. I'm really confused now, but I thought it'd be interesting to point it out.
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff -- I don't remember your original claim, though. Did you see them in the game, or while looking through these files?

(Also - can you dig out the same sort of information from Wing 4?)

(Incidentally, there's nothing matching this information that I've seen in any of the WC3 development notes I recieved... let me add, though, that there is *something* familiar about this information -- I just don't know what.)

That txt file is news to me man. I don't think it's the first wierd stuff we've seen (for example, False Colors referred to the Battle of Terra being "5 years ago" from 2670" and how Kruger "took the fleet to Terra in '66"), but I got a feeling it won't be the last.
Click to expand...

Those dates are my fault. The original draft of False Colors was set two years ahead of where it is now - the opening chapter was in (IIRC) 2671 and the book went until 2675 (again, IIRC). While working with the editor, I asked that they move everything two years forward to fit with the known end date for the war... unfortunately, they also shifted forward the Battle of Earth and left the 'four year' and 'five year' references in place. :)
 
(I snipped out the actual text for my reference -- here it is for anyone else who'd like it:)

ARROW
TYPE: Light Fleet Defense Fighter
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 40mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 30mm
SHIELD STRENGTH/REGEN: 200/20 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 520/1400 KPS
SERVICE DATE: May 11, 2660
ARCHITECT: Kelly Chance Todd, Ph.D.

HELLCAT V
TYPE: Medium Interceptor
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 50mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 40mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 220/22 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 420/1200 KPS
SERVICE DATE: September 12, 2669
ARCHITECT: Garner Industries

THUNDERBOLT VII
TYPE: Heavy Fighter
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 60mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 50mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 380/1000 KPS
SERVICE DATE: December 25, 2665
ARCHITECT: Headrick, Haddock, and Roberts Co.

LONGBOW
TYPE: Torpedo Bomber
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 150mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 150mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 500/100 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 320/700 KPS
SERVICE DATE: July 24, 2673
ARCHITECT: Christa Kiefer, M.S.D.

EXCALIBUR
TYPE: EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 55mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 55mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 500/1300 KPS
SERVICE DATE: March 17, 2676
ARCHITECT: Seraphim Shipyards

EXCALIBUR
TYPE: EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 55mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 55mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 500/1300 KPS
SERVICE DATE: March 17, 2676
ARCHITECT: Seraphim Shipyards

EXCALIBUR
TYPE: EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 55mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 55mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 500/1300 KPS
SERVICE DATE: March 17, 2676
ARCHITECT: Seraphim Shipyards

EXCALIBUR
TYPE: EXPERIMENTAL PROTOTYPE
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 55mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 55mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 500/1300 KPS
SERVICE DATE: March 17, 2676
ARCHITECT: Seraphim Shipyards

DUMBFIRE
TYPE: Missile
TACVAL: Low

HEATSEEK
TYPE: Missile
TACVAL: Medium

IMAGE REC
TYPE: Missile
TACVAL: Medium

FRIEND OR FOE
TYPE: Missile
TACVAL: High

LEECH
TYPE: Missile
TACVAL: UNKNOWN

LANCE
TYPE: Torpedo
TACVAL: CAP SHIP

PORCUPINE
TYPE: Mine
TACVAL: Defensive

TEMBLOR BOMB
TYPE: CLASSIFIED
TACVAL: ULTRA

TEMBLOR BOMB
TYPE: CLASSIFIED
TACVAL: ULTRA

CLOAKING DEVICE
TYPE: CLASSIFIED
TACVAL: Defensive
 
Bandit LOAF said:
THUNDERBOLT VII
TYPE: Heavy Fighter
ARMOR FRONT/BACK: 60mm
ARMOR LEFT/RIGHT: 50mm
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
TOP SPEED/AFTERBURNER: 380/1000 KPS
SERVICE DATE: December 25, 2665
ARCHITECT: Headrick, Haddock, and Roberts Co.
Click to expand...

Now that was a merry christmas indeed!
 
Bandit LOAF said:
(I snipped out the actual text for my reference -- here it is for anyone else who'd like it:)

ARROW
SHIELD STRENGTH/REGEN: 200/20 joules
SERVICE DATE: May 11, 2660

HELLCAT V
SHIELD STRENGTH: 220/22 joules
SERVICE DATE: September 12, 2669

EXCALIBUR
SHIELD STRENGTH: 250/25 joules
SERVICE DATE: March 17, 2676
Click to expand...

There is not much improvement in the Confed Shield technology I suppose. Take a look at the numbers. Little Arrow has 200 Shield Strength in 2660, the Excalibur, designed 16 years after Arrow, has only 250.

And whats the logic behind not putting the shield generator of Longbow into the Excalibur? Its design is three years ahead of the Excalibur. What are the dimesions of the Excalibur and Longbow? On the top of my head, maybe the cloaking device is eating so much space that they could only fit it with a little shield generator, but who knows?
 
If it was that easy, Murray, then all fighters would carry the heaviest available shield generators. We can assume that the Excal has the best shield generator it could carry at the time.

Anyway, this is pretty neat stuff... lots of additional manufacturer info and such, but those 2673 and 2676 dates are gonna take a lot of explaining. Any ideas?
 
It's neat, but almost all of it is contradictory -- since different manufacturers are given for all of these fighters already... and different classes... and a huge difference in amount of armor... and the dates...
 
Bandit LOAF said:
It's neat, but almost all of it is contradictory -- since different manufacturers are given for all of these fighters already... and different classes... and a huge difference in amount of armor... and the dates...
Click to expand...
Indeed. I suppose in this particular case we have the option of simply ignoring all of it (since it's not really officially-published material and stuff), but it would be nice to salvage what we can out of it. The "architect" thing, for example, doesn't really contradict the known manufacturers of these ships at all; it frequently happens in real life that one company designs a plane but doesn't have the resources to mass-produce it, so another company does it.

The armour values are also interesting... if we assume that these give the actual (rather than durasteel-equivalent) armour values, then they allow us to identify the type of armour used on these ships. The Arrow's armour, for example, is said here to be 4 cm, while it's durasteel-equivalent armour value is 80 cm. 4 x 20 = 80, so it's tungsten armour. The type can also be explained away as the actual function of the ships rather than their class. So really, only the service dates are a problem here.
 
Maybe the architect represents the head engineer who was the lead designer of the Research and Development phase. This is especially true for people who have their doctorates in Aerospace Engineering, who are appointed as project managers. My professor for "Aircraft Design" class, in which we made the blueprints/technical specifications for a Unarmed Aerial Vehicle, was a head honcho at Lockheed Martin. As for the "industries" part, no clue.

As for the armor, these initial stats could mean the armor when the fighter *first* rolled out. It was then upgraded to the current WC3-ish stats we all know and love.
 
Wait, I thought the manual stated durasteel equivalents or something. Ah, heck, these units of measurements are always painful to work out. Armada's shield/armour values seem really low for some reason... but then, Armada ships are also really fast.

Wedge009 said:
I'm really trying to concentrate on my studies.
Click to expand...
Hmm, so much for studying... :(

psych said:
...were there anymore fun tidbits that were seen in the gameflow.TRE?
Click to expand...
Ironically, I couldn't find the load-out terminal's ship descriptions again, but I did find the General MIDIs of the music from the game. IIRC, they were in 00000035.IFF (using TRE manager), and I used Ripper5 to extract the MIDIs. They're in HMP format, so I used Peter Pawlowski's MIDI plug-in for Winamp to convert them to standard MIDI, and I'm also adding RIFF tag information them.

I also found the wave samples for background sounds while walking around the Victory. They included the engine noise (most prevalent while using terminals), Rachel's voice-overs when selecting weapons, lift sound effects, terminal sound effects and Rollins calling on the PA system.

I suspect OBJECTS.TRE holds various textures and meshes.

I also found the music test MIDIs (for General MIDI, Roland, and AdLib, I assume - the music test is the same as an ace 'kill' in combat) and Eisen's voice samples from INSTALL.TRE

Bandit LOAF said:
Interesting stuff -- I don't remember your original claim, though. Did you see them in the game, or while looking through these files?
Click to expand...
When I first found this info on the ships, I tried to search for my initial claims back in late 2000, but no luck. Perhaps the thread is deleted? It'd probably be for the best. :) In any case, I remember first seeing this info in the game, but I can't seem to reproduce it. Maybe I really was hallucinating, but how would that explain me remembering the dates in the 2670s? :confused:

Bandit LOAF said:
...can you dig out the same sort of information from Wing 4?
Click to expand...
Well, I haven't finished tinkering with WC3 yet, and I'm really supposed to be doing more important things, but hey, it's WC, I'll have a go over the weekend.

LANCE
TYPE: Torpedo
TACVAL: CAP SHIP

PORCUPINE
TYPE: Mine
TACVAL: Defensive
Click to expand...
I always wanted to know where the "Lance" tag for the torpedoes came from, and it's nice that they kept the "Porcupine" name for mines from WC1.

Quarto said:
So really, only the service dates are a problem here.
Click to expand...
Which is what confused me when I first saw them...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top