WC1 squadrons

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
(...) Anyway, we *could* disregard the novels, movie, books and certain elements of the game -- but what would we gain? (...)
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I agree LOAF, we would not gain much.

But as far as cohesion is concerned, you have to admit that there are some points where maintaining things coherent is rather sloppy...

This "gap" in the storyline from WC I is quite interesting, and would indeed explain the Sivar ceremony, but it's very hard to believe that the ATV series are intertwined with WC I, and the pliots changing ships every day...

In my opinion, this would be simply explained by making abstraction of the WC universe (ARGH!! It's hard!! :)) and saying that the ATV writers did not worry too much about finding a "slot" where they could put the ATV series, keeping the storyline of WC I and avoiding contradictions, and that they just adapted the WC universe to a cartoon series, doing their best to maintain cohesion where it was possible...

The question that arises now, is WHY didn't they choose ships and pilots from the games as well?.. :confused:

[Edited by mpanty on 03-07-2001 at 22:09]
 
Its pretty obvious that they have ALWAYS done what they wanted in everything non game related WC and left us too make it fit in continuity. They never tried to make it fit, cause they rather didnt care to. You have to accept that and then take it into consideration when thinking things out. They didnt put Hellcats in WCA because they thought they were in use at the time. Its just a fighter they can use. They didnt disrupt the Sivar cerimony becasue they thought Confed did it all the time (though they probably did it as often as they could cause it broke the cat's moral) They didnt have Blair encounter a cloaking fighter in an episode becasue they thought it would be logical that everyone onboard the Claw would have a collective seisure and forget about it. Those were good story elements from the game they could adapt into an episode and did.
 
Actually, Blair was never assigned to any other ships in WCA -- always the Scimitar (and once the Broadsword -- but the movie claims that bombers would be part of individual squadrons rather than a special squadron of their own, but I digress...).

Anyway, to say that they don't care about continuity would be wrong -- why, then, did the TV show bother to draw Scimitars and the Tiger's Claw and such they way they did? It's secondary to telling a good story, certainly, but they do try...
 
Hate to take this way back to the beginning, but...

Originally posted by Fenris
I know, you will say that designs don't get scrapped that often, but look at World War II. The Wildcat was completely phased out in favor of the Hellcat in only about three years.
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The Wildcat was a 1937 design (redesign 1938), which entered service in very late 1939. They remained in frontline duties with the U.S. Navy until mid-1944. Production continued until August 1945, with over 7300 built, and still VERY active on carriers of several of the Allies, including the U.S. (primarily escort carriers for the latter). Other nations used them until the late 40's, more than TEN years after active introduction.
 
Well of course they would use continuity when they could. They have to make it recognizable as Wing Commander, but it IS secondary.
 
Just one question, LOAF. If the 2655 Sivar-Eshrad ceremony took place on October 20th, then wouldn't logic dictate that the 2654 Sivar-Eshrad ceremony took place on August 8th (that is, exactly a year earlier, according to the Kilrathi calendar)? I mean, we know that it's an annual ceremony, and that the Kilrathi year is 438 Terran days, not 365, so...
This doesn't of course change anything in regards to WCA, but it is worth keeping in mind.
 
Wing Commander Academy,a giant base to train wing commanders...eh i thought a wc is just a easy to gain miltary status,never knew it's like being a jedi ...:rolleyes: :)
 
Loaf, I also got a question: Some of the dates you brought up are for missions from the losing path. What if we did not play these missions? Do we still attack the Kilrathi HQ in 2654.325?
 
I think so...

Apparently each mission has its "fixed" dateline, an when you end up to a system, the program loads it up... whatever winning/losing path you take...

Am I correct, Bandit? :)
 
Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
Hate to take this way back to the beginning, but...

Originally posted by Fenris
I know, you will say that designs don't get scrapped that often, but look at World War II. The Wildcat was completely phased out in favor of the Hellcat in only about three years.
Click to expand...
The Wildcat was a 1937 design (redesign 1938), which entered service in very late 1939. They remained in frontline duties with the U.S. Navy until mid-1944. Production continued until August 1945, with over 7300 built, and still VERY active on carriers of several of the Allies, including the U.S. (primarily escort carriers for the latter). Other nations used them until the late 40's, more than TEN years after active introduction.
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I concede, but must point out that in active front-line service, it had been all but replaced by the Hellcat before the end of the war, which was only a five-year war. Old designs do not last nearly as long in wartime as they do in peacetime, so seeing the shifts in ships between the games does not mean that "we just didn't see them before." More likely, they are newer designs replacing the earlier ones to make up for advances in both Terran and Kilrathi technology.

I am officially chagrined, you got the history before I did. Guess that's what happens when I don't have all my books with me.
 
The source for the Sivar date is the KS calander, which treats it as an annual event.

As for the inclusion of the 'losing' missions -- in WC1 they *did* exist -- the WC1/2 guide tells the Vega Campaign as a story, with the losing missions being flown by other pilots.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
As for the inclusion of the 'losing' missions -- in WC1 they *did* exist -- the WC1/2 guide tells the Vega Campaign as a story, with the losing missions being flown by other pilots.
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I have to... oh God forgive me for hwat I'm about to say (:) disagree with you LOAF on that...

If you take a look at the VEGA sector map on the Claw Marks edition, you can see that Venice and Hell's Kitchen are at opposite ends... meaning that if the Kilrathi get to Hell's Kitchen, the "front" line has retreated and Confed would be fighting to keep the sector under control...

On the other hand, at Venice you are winning the sector, the Kilrathi are retreating!! You just need to strike the final blow on that space station!
It seems highly unlikely to me that while you're fighting for victory at Venice, "other" pilots are trying to defend Hell's Kitchen and the sector from being overwhelmed...
 
Read you're WC1/2 Guide... the Hell's Kitchen series are flown by pilots off the TCS Eagle's Talon, defending the system against a desperate last-chance Kilrathi incursion (G)
 
Is it "Wing Commander I&II: The ultimate Strategy guide" by Mike Harrison that you refer to? Wait... I'll get my copy...<searching>...yeah you are right about the Hell's Kitchen missions. But the missions in Cheng-Du, e.g., are flown by Tiger's Claw pilots as are the Port Hedland missions. So the Claw must have done indeed some space hopping.
BTW I did not know that this guide is official canon but it is a nice book.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Read your WC1/2 Guide... the Hell's Kitchen series are flown by pilots off the TCS Eagle's Talon, defending the system against a desperate last-chance Kilrathi incursion (G)
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Ah ok...

But then that's the "official" way the story went, just like in the Price of Freedom novel, where Blair has a choice to defect sooner or later, and in the novel it is "officially" later.

So if I understand correctly, there must be an "official" path to the WC I missions as well, and it's not the one where all missions are a success ('cause I remember reading somewhere (maybe in the CIC storyline section... :) that the Terran scientists on some planet are actually killed by the Kilrathi).

You probably have that "offical" path to share with us, LOAF? :D
 
Originally posted by mpanty
But then that's the "official" way the story went, just like in the Price of Freedom novel, where Blair has a choice to defect sooner or later, and in the novel it is "officially" later.
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Actually, I always looked at that as if the novel combined both choices.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The source for the Sivar date is the KS calander, which treats it as an annual event.
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I believe I've got an explanation for that. First of all, when you write the date of Easter in a calendar, you don't write that it is, for example, Easter 2001, right? You just write Easter - if it's a 2001 calendar, it's self-explanatory that you're talking about the date Easter will take place in 2001.

Thus, if Sivar-Eshrad also takes place on .293 in '73 (the year of the calendar), then there's no conflict between what I say, and what the calendar says. As it turns out, that's exactly what happens. If we assume that the Sivar-Eshrad does indeed take place every Kilrathi year, we get this:

'54 - .220
'55 - .293
'56 - (none; there is no Sivar-Eshrad in this Terran year)
'57 - .001
'58 - .074
'59 - .147
'60 - .220
'61 - .293
'62 - (none)
'63 - .001
'64 - .074
'65 - .147
'66 - .220
'67 - .293
'68 - (none)
'69 - .001
'70 - .074
'71 - .147
'72 - .220
'73 - .293

Wouldn't you agree that this makes more sense than the Kilrathi holding a ceremony according to the calendar of a planet that the Kilrathi had never even heard of, before the '20s?

[Edited by Quarto on 03-08-2001 at 21:12]
 
Does that mean you'd have to change the Sivar-Eshrad dates on the main page then? I mean, in the upcoming events bit.
 
The official story for WC1 -- which missions were won, which were lost and so forth -- is told in the WC1 Official Guide...

Anyway, that's an excellent idea, Quarto... lets calculate back to present day (or at least 2621).
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The official story for WC1 -- which missions were won, which were lost and so forth -- is told in the WC1 Official Guide...
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Eh eh... eBay: been there, done that... and it should arrive in a couple o' weeks... :)
 
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