WC1 Lasers,Turrets, & Batteries..oh my..also missles/shields

Grey_Ghost

Grey_Ghost

Spaceman
Are there any differences (dmg? refire? etc.) between Lasers mounted in turrets versus those mounted on fighters?

What exactly are the Laser Batteries mounted on most capships?

How would I convert the ESK rating on missiles into something I can understand? If a Dumbfire missile does 11,000ESK, how much CM damage does that equate to. How many DF missile hits do you think a Bengal class carrier could survive in one volley?

The Ships Database lists shield recharge times, how would one interpret these? If a ships shield has a recharge of 5 seconds, does that mean 1cm of the shield recharges every 5 seconds?
 
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ESK rating is on the same scale as gun damage. Thus, a WC3 ImRec missile that does 350 damage is equal to ten volleys from its dual Lasers (which deal 18 damage per gun per shot).

AFAIK, WC3/WC4 laser turrets have the same Laser guns (two each) used on fighters, but WCP/WCSO laser turrets (and bomber turrets) are more powerful.

The anti-capship heavy Laser Batteries are not simulated in-game--any WC3/WC4 capship combat happens just with the anti-fighter Laser turrets (and the Antimatter turrets for ships that mount those).
 
I am specifically asking about WC1 cause things tend to change bewteen the sequels.

So the Laser Batteries listed on ships specs are actually not present in the game? Hmm...for a mod does one go with in-game or paper statistics...

Maybe WC1 is not a good candidate for a MOD. Without Phase Shields CapShips don't look to stand a chance against even half of a Carriers compliment of fighters. They'd need some sort of missile defense, and I'd rather stay canon then start making things up.
 
Well, technically laser batteries and other large scale weapons weren't simulated on WC1 ships, but there weren't any capship battles in WC1, so it wasn't required to have them.

With phase shields, a capship doesn't stand much of a chance against half of a carrier's fighter complement. That is what made carrier warfare in WC so potent and why BBs were phased out.

The Ships Database lists shield recharge times, how would one interpret these? If a ships shield has a recharge of 5 seconds, does that mean 1cm of the shield recharges every 5 seconds?
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I have interpreted this to mean that the shield is completely recharged in 5 seconds. Confed phase shields in 2669 recharged completely in 10 seconds. So if a ship has 3000 cm. phase shields, it will recharge 300 cm/second.
 
Ijuin said:
ESK rating is on the same scale as gun damage. Thus, a WC3 ImRec missile that does 350 damage is equal to ten volleys from its dual Lasers
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WC1 Dumbfire & Friend-or-Foe missiles are 11,000 & 9,500 ESK respectively, those numbers just don't jive with your logic.

Dragon1 said:
Well, technically laser batteries and other large scale weapons weren't simulated on WC1 ships, but there weren't any capship battles in WC1, so it wasn't required to have them.
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So Batteries are for the sole purpose of CapShip combat?

Dragon1 said:
I have interpreted this to mean that the shield is completely recharged in 5 seconds. Confed phase shields in 2669 recharged completely in 10 seconds. So if a ship has 3000 cm. phase shields, it will recharge 300 cm/second.
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Granted it has been a long time since I've been able to play WC1, but I don't think that can be right. Fighter craft average 4-5sec on shield recharge, and I don't remember it being that short of time to reach full shields in a hornet. Maybe I am wrong, I just don't know.

I'm asking these questions because I am thinking about starting a RTS MOD based on WC1. However if the CapShips get vaporized in a matter of seconds, essentially making them fodder, then there might not be a point to it. Thus my problem, is there a way to fix this without leaping way outside canon?
 
Grey_Ghost said:
I'm asking these questions because I am thinking about starting a RTS MOD based on WC1. However if the CapShips get vaporized in a matter of seconds, essentially making them fodder, then there might not be a point to it. Thus my problem, is there a way to fix this without leaping way outside canon?
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It's most important to research the Wing Commander universe in regards to your story background and setting. Trying to simulate things like shield recharge from one game to another is a good way to ruin your mod for very little benefit. If you can somehow sync everything up, that's great, but there's other angles you should be attacking before considering that kind of stuff.
 
It's only skirmish MOD right now. I am focusing on the WC1(1.5ish maybe) timeline/part of the WC universe. I'm trying to understand how these ships should function. Using the game information to try and get an understanding of the mechanics seemed reasonable. If there is is a better source, please let me know what it is.
 
It doesn't matter if there's no story at all, there's still a lot of background information you can use to set up a mod. Researching the various elements to create the unified picture is important, but right now it's just academic. Wing Commander 1 itself didn't worry about the distinction between laser cannons, laser batteries and laser turrets when it came to gameplay matters. Your mod doesn't have to either, and it probably shouldn't at the very beginning stages.
 
I'm less concerned with lasers right now, and more interested in the viability of CapShips in the presence of Fighters. I have no idea what what these various elements you think I should be researching are. If working on the core mehcanics for a tactical full fleet battle simulation isn't what I should be doing, please tell me what it is you think I should.
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If your saying I don't have to stick to the actual game as the word of Jehova, then I already know that. I'm just afraid of adjusting it so much that it doesn't really feel like the material it's supposed to be based on. I'm not even sure how I would adjust it to begin with.
 
Grey_Ghost said:
I'm less concerned with lasers right now, and more interested in the viability of CapShips in the presence of Fighters. I have no idea what what these various elements you think I should be researching are. If working on the core mehcanics for a tactical full fleet battle simulation isn't what I should be doing, please tell me what it is you think I should.
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That's exactly what I've saying you should be working on. Rather than bring together too many various elements, see what plays right in your game, and then see what opportunities you have to combine that with Wing Commander. The game won't be playable if you shoehorn in a bunch of stats from a different type of game. You should see how long it takes a wing of Gratha to pound away the 'Claw rather than try to migrate shield recharge stats. It'd be different if you were in like a Standoff situation modifying an actual Wing Commander engine, but for an RTS, you should look at it differently since the action will play out completely differently.

Grey_Ghost said:
If your saying I don't have to stick to the actual game as the word of Jehova, then I already know that. I'm just afraid of adjusting it so much that it doesn't really feel like the material it's supposed to be based on. I'm not even sure how I would adjust it to begin with.
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That's the opposite of what I'm saying. But you should be carefully researching the foundation of where your game takes place.
 
Ah, well I was asking about the original games stats just to get a rough starting point. All I really need is an educated guestimate. I think I'll just start off testing how well the 4 sided armor and fore/aft shields work out in the engine.

How many ships constitute a Claw? I was nuts about WC1&2+expansions back in the day, but lost all interest untill WCP:SO. I'm just starting to re-learn certain things.
 
I believe a "Claw" is a kilrathi desciption of a group of fighters- like a squadron. Althought I seem to remember that the "eight" descriptor is more common. (3 Eights of Dralthi approached the navpoint.)
I could be hazy on this, though.

Howie
 
A "Claw" is a Kilrathi enlisted rank. Kilrathi squadrons are often just referred to as squadrons.
 
In addition to Chris' reference to Claw as the Empire's eqiuvalent of enlisted ranks (Least Claw, Third Claw, Second Claw and First Claw), it shows up pretty frequently elsewhere.

The Claw is important throughout Kilrathi culture. In terms of iconography, the sigils of both the nar Kiranka clan (Kiranka literally translates into 'Red Claw') and the Empire itself are stylized claws. Because of this, 'Claw' can refer to the Empire itself; hence the naming of Kilrathi fleets: "First Fleet of the Claw", "Second Fleet of the Claw", etc. The word shows up in their personal callsigns, too -- ie, Najji "Fireclaw" nar Ragitagha.

They're a physical aspect of the Kilrathi, of course, and because of that they play a large role in taunts and such ("I will lick your blood from my claws!" and the like). Kilrathi Marines are famous for their "Claw knives", which are capable of disembowling someone with the flick of a wrist. Apparently the Kilrathi like to hunt with their claws -- they retract like a normal cat, and even their space suits are designed with openings to allow them to bare their claws. A rather famous line in the Kilrathi Oath is "With my claws I unsheathe victory".

It does not mean squadron, but as an important Kilrathi term it often appears in the names of squadrons. For instance, Black Claw Squadron and Gold Claw Squadron from Pilgrim Stars or Blooded Claw Squadron and Atomic Claw Squadron from the CCG. These fighters had operation callsigns like "Gold Claw Leader" and "Black Claw Three". (Aside: Kilrathi squadron numbers, like human ones, don't seem to be constant. The fighters escorting the ComCon in PS were seven fighter squadrons... but at the end of the war in False Colors the Empire seems to use an eight ship standard.)

The Kilrathi variant of the Image Recognition missile is called the Claw IR.

There's a Kilrathi flight maneuver called the Dewclaw.
 
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