WC Copyrights

M

Marcml30

Spaceman
I was reading a magazine article on Napster where one of the author's arguments for supporting the service is that he cannot get certain old music because the company does not distribute them any more. He writes "(The songs) aren't on the market any longer, so who's income am I denying by downloading them via Napster?". As I read this I saw an interesting parallel between this statement and the old WC games.

I AM NOT PROMOTING OR SUPPORTING ILLEGAL COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!

That said, I think that game companies should make old games free a few (maybe five) years after discontinuing distribution.
1. If I want WC Armada and buy it from someone on ebay for $80 (because I cannot find it in any store), who is losing money? It's certainly not EA/Origin.
2. IMO companies support WAREZ sites passively since they don't seem to pursue/prosecute those sites. In other words, they ignore them. The exceptions are those sites that post NEW games. For example, over a year ago I looked on this site for info about WCP/SO after finding other sites that were distributing the WCP/SO missions - they are still there more than a year later.
 
Everthing is covered in Copyright.
Sierra releases old games in of their series like king quest, since many of the king quest games are old, their fall in your category of warez.
The same thing can happen with all games.
the only thing that is somewhat possible is games from companies that no longer exist.
there is something called freeware, companies could make the old games that they no longer wish to publish freeware.
 
But they don´t. The majoraty of "abandonware" places was close down, because the companies don´t care about the games but at the same time they won't let the people get them for free, after all, they are not sold anywere.
It´s kind of stupid, but that´s how things work.
 
Isn't passive support an oxymoron? I don't think companies support Warez passively. There's just not a whole lot they can do about them in most cases.
Those Warez freaks are distributing Sacrifice iso's, while shiny seems to be completly ignoring them. I doubt this means they want the warez people distributing it.
 
Armada? For 80 dollars? It goes for under ten...

Abandonware isn't a real concept -- it's just criminals trying to make their particular form of stealing sound noble. It's not 'kind of stupid' for a company to close down such sites -- they're *required* to defend their copywrites in this manner, or risk losing them.

Origin still makes money off of WC (they recently sold PC Gamer the right to distribute KS WC1 on a special CD -- negotiations pending for KS WC2!), and it's very easy for anyone to get almost any WC product for cheaper than it was originally sold.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Abandonware isn't a real concept -- it's just criminals trying to make their particular form of stealing sound noble. It's not 'kind of stupid' for a company to close down such sites -- they're *required* to defend their copywrites in this manner, or risk losing them.
WC product for cheaper than it was originally sold.
Click to expand...

Granted Bandit, but don't tell me that if you accidentally lost one of the Commander Keen episodes, you wouldn't be damn pissed right now because they're not available anymore from Apogee...
(I'm just taking the (LEGENDARY) Commander Keen series example, 'cause I know you like them! :))

Some old games, that wouldn't be otherwise avalaible, need to be on abandonwarez sites...
Otherwise, the companies who are hunting those sites down are just being selfish, because they're not making their games available in some other way...

Tell me where the hell I could find an old classic like... I don't know... Tetris or Scorched Earth somewhere else than abandonwarez sites???
 
I totally agree with LOAF.

Also, part of the idea is that these companies are not sitting on the 'net all day looking for sites that are making their old games available for free download. Because they don't leap down millions of peoples throats at once does not mean in any way that they are supporting it.

"1. If I want WC Armada and buy it from someone on ebay for $80 (because I cannot find it in any store), who is losing money? It's certainly not EA/Origin."

It's not about losing money... it's about who's snowing you into paying $80 for that game. Stop bidding when it gets to $20. Yeesh...

In any case, people seem to think that copyright infringement has anything and everything to do with money and income. While the Napster thing has influenced the sales of certain artists, the bottom line is still that this material is copyrighted, and it's unlawful to distribute these works without permission from the copyright holder. Besides that, the artists don't lose much money if any anyway, so why would they get into it if it affected them so little financially? Because finance doesn't have as much to do with it as people seem to think.

I think Metallica's case was that people were taking their works that were supposed to be protected by law, and that these people were brazenly defying that law. As a musician myself, I'd be rather ticked off that I would have my original works copyrighted to prevent illegal copying and distribution, just to have millions of people defying that, and rubbing it in my face.

But that's just my opinion. Please don't flame me for it.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Origin still makes money off of WC (they recently sold PC Gamer the right to distribute KS WC1 on a special CD -- negotiations pending for KS WC2!),
Click to expand...
I wonder - did the distribution rights pay for the lawyers fees involved in the negotiations?

and it's very easy for anyone to get almost any WC product for cheaper than it was originally sold.
Click to expand...
Like the full KS for $300+ on ebay or Privateer Deluxe? But I'm talking about OLD games, games that have a limited appeal in the current market. I suppose every company could hold out thinking that one day they might be able to squeeze a few more pennies out of a tired old game. It's been a while since I looked at those demo CDs that the mags put out - are the free games they distribute on them henceforth considered freeware? Can someone make and distribute (free) the CDs?

Originally posted by Dekkar
There's just not a whole lot they can do about them in most cases.
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Sure they can. They can nail the ISP as well as the distributor. It was a while back, but I remember some site putting a game new game up on the net for download and that company did actively pursue/prosecute the site. And they don't really have to do it themselves just let the SPA (SPC?) do it for them. And I don't think "passive support" is an oxymoron however, "illegal copyright infringement" is.
 
Originally posted by mpanty
Some old games, that wouldn't be otherwise avalaible, need to be on abandonwarez sites...
Otherwise, the companies who are hunting those sites down are just being selfish, because they're not making their games available in some other way...

Tell me where the hell I could find an old classic like... I don't know... Tetris or Scorched Earth somewhere else than abandonwarez sites???
Click to expand...

Games don't need to be posted anywhere... they are entertainment, and something I'm sure one could exist without. As for the other paragraph, I have a novel suggestion... how about cutting your losses and focusing on something else? I mean... the old games are great, but why do you absolutely need them? They're games, they're not the quintessence of the universe.
 
Originally posted by Saturnyne
It's not about losing money... it's about who's snowing you into paying $80 for that game. Stop bidding when it gets to $20. Yeesh...
Click to expand...
Yeesh, and not get the game. Too bad, so sad.
 
If I've *lost* a computer game, I'm completely justified in making a copy from someone else who has it -- I purchased the license, and I haven't sold it to anyone else -- it was just destroyed.

As for finding old classics -- there's an entire hobby dedicated to collecting such things, they can be found without too much difficulty (G).
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
If I've *lost* a computer game, I'm completely justified in making a copy from someone else who has it -- I purchased the license, and I haven't sold it to anyone else -- it was just destroyed.
Click to expand...
Whoa is that legal? Isn't that the kind of rationalizing the gaming/music industry opposes? Wouldn't they want you to go out and buy a replacement? Or are we only talking about old games that the owner doesn't care about?
 
Ok Bandit, I see your point (still don't agree with it, but I see it :))...

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
As for finding old classics -- there's an entire hobby dedicated to collecting such things, they can be found without too much difficulty (G).
Click to expand...

LOL!!!
You just pointed out in a mirror a whole life of dedication, Bandit!!! ;)

Tell me, "without too much difficulty"... how was that for you?
 
It's absolutely legal to have a backup copy of a game for your own use -- it's in the legalese included in most manuals (G) Software companies allowed this because, years ago, disks went bad very often -- it saved them a lot of money to allow people to make copies for themselves rather than have to order replacement disks.

As for finding old games... it's really not hard -- there's ebay (300+ titles when you search for 'Tetris':)), there are conventions, there are stores that sell old video games... (Joe Garrity and I hit the same store regularly and spend a whole lot on old Origin titles -- but there are stacks and stacks of other, older games...).
 
Marcml30 downloading a game you have bought is legal! You buy the liscence to use the game, a copy of the game is then included with your purchase. So long as you do not sell your lisence you are legally intialled to use a copy of that game be it the one you recieved with the lisence or one you downloaded because your copy got fraged. If you have not have purchased that lisence it doesn't matter how old the game is you have no right to use it.
 
Its legal to make copys of a game that you just buy, you cannot however give/sell those copys to another person.
if you sell the game, all copys that you made must be either inclued with the game package our destroyed.
 
Bandit... you do understand that to be able to obtain a "collection" worthy of that name, you need to be living in the US...

Most (more than 50% I have noticed) stuff on sale on eBay, is only available to ship to US... and that's sad... :(

Besides, Europe doesn't have that many low priced computer stores... (simply because Europe itself is big, but each country is small compared to US...)

Look at the difficulties our German friends Manjana and Mekt-Hakkikt have, in finding WC games... :)

[Edited by mpanty on 03-05-2001 at 18:35]
 
I'm well aware of the backup policy but (and I might just be arguing policy) the case BLOAF outlined below seems different to me. Let's look at another case. Suppose I bought MS Office 95 and lost/destroyed the disk or CD key. Isn't there a difference between me using a backup CD/key as opposed to going to a friend and using his CD/serial number? I'm just using this as an example to illustrate "purchased copy" and "purchased licence".
 
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