Totally Off-Topic

Dragon1

Dragon1

Rear Admiral
HELP

I come to the wise assemblage of Wing Commander Fans for something totally off-topic. Seeing how much intellect is displayed on the forums, I figured I would be in luck here, where other online communities devoted specifically to this sort of thing have failed.

So here it goes...

In AD 1189, who held the honor, lordship and castle of Chateau-Gontier in Anjou, France? Sir Maurice Powicke states that it was held for knight service by the Norman baron Nigel of Montbray (Mowbray). This is contradiction to other sources that I have seen stating an Angevin, Renaud III de Chateau-Gontier, held lordship. Any thoughts? This would really help me in a side project that I am directing at CalState University Long Beach.

Thanks everyone! Happy Hollidays!
 
This sounds mixed up. Henry II of Englands and his son held power over Anjou until 1189, but they are Plantagenet - the creation of Angevin started with the second dynasty, so that's Charles of Sicily, 1227.
That would build a case for Renaud III de Chateau-Gontier - but he left for the crusade in 1096, and died in 1101, so he's definitely out of the game. At best, it could be his son Allard IV, who held a title as Seigneur de Château-Gontier. Now a seigneur is about as much as a fief or liege lord, so he could have been the lord of the castle and enjoying the service of vassal knights.
Nigel, on the other hand, was a son of bishop Geoffrey's sister, but his father was Roger d'Aubigny - why he still is made up as a Norman is strange, but might have to do with their support for Henry I. He got hold of a fiefdom in Yorkshire, and the fiefdom of Mowbray - thus coining the family name, but having nothing to do with Anjou.
So I vote for Allard, but only on circumstantioal evidence. Sheesh, I guess it's back to the library for you now.
 
Angevin, meaning 'of Anjou'. Remember, Henry II's father was Geoffrey, count of Anjou. 'Plantagenet' supposedly came from Planta Genesta that was worn in Count Geoffrey's hair.

You are right in the sense that Nigel de Mowbray should have nothing to do with Anjou. The problem comes from Sir Maurice Powicke's work The Loss of Normandy in which he specifically states that Nigel held Chateau-Gontier for the service of 5 knights.

Now time to time historians have been known to be wrong, but, where would a researcher of such esteem have come up with that? Possibly, Nigel held the lordship in right of his wife, or a dowary possession, or grant of an escheat by Henry II.

I have pretty much identified most of the powerful men of Anjou and Maine at this time, men like Maurice II de Craon, Juhel de Mayennne and Fulk de Beauvau. Chateau-Gontier was one of the major honors of Anjou. Having this void in my knowledge base is quite frustrating.

Thanks criticalmass for your info!

Thanks everyone for the help and support
 
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