Tolwyn : Multiple Personalities Disorder

book don't say who signed it, just says paladin and tolwyn were seated among the confed representatives
 
It didn't even say that Tolwyn *didn't* sign it -- just that he was sitting at a table at some point during the proceedings (G)
 
I was mistaken and confused, I guess. Didn't they describe Tolwyn as looking angry or disheveled?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
It didn't even say that Tolwyn *didn't* sign it -- just that he was sitting at a table at some point during the proceedings (G)
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So he could of sign it or been one of a group of people to sign it and just sat afterwords at this table or during it.
 
Ahhh, that's slightly better... ;)

But I would hardly call him a backstabber even without the personality overlay explanation. The Hobbes we knew was a proud warrior, who fought on the side which he felt was right. But still, what kind of a person would sit idly by while somebody plans to destroy their home planet, where they come from, murder billions of civilians, relatives, friends. I know I wouldn't. I respected Hobbes much more when he did what he did while playing WC3, before the whole keyword "heart of the tiger" business came to light...
 
hobbes was a backstabber cause he took an oath of loyality to the confederation and then broke it, brain washed or not

as for tolwyn, i went back and looked at the book, and it does say that he played a part in the negotiations and played a role in the final triumph.
 
Aries said:
hobbes was a backstaber cause he took an oath of loyality to the confederation and then broke it, brain washed or not

as for tolwyn, i went back and looked at the book, and it does say that he played a part in the negotiations and played a role in the final triumph.
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Well I ment brain wash the hole time. I was just out of it the night I first wrote that. :eek:
Anyways Hobbes was by far my favorite wingman ever.


And I had a feeling that Tolywn had somthing to do with the treaty. I couldnt see him being there just to sit by and spectate. I think I should reread it again soon ;)
 
well my take...

i dont think tolwyn made a sudden 180, nor was it a gradual slide either IMO..

i think the overtones were that the kilrathi war was a dehumanising conflict, but even so - a man's vigor was concentrated on a known enemy that threatened extinction...

the post war years and the rebuilding could do little to sooth the frayed nerves of the war weary - killing was now in their blood - human became animals, as tolwyn said in his speech to the black lance - people have to be more like the kilrathi.

i think this angle was an ingenious parody or social commentry on humanity with the various ww2 analogies throught the game.

i think that the use of great poetry by yeats "the second coming" pointed to this, the loss of innocence and the rise of evil as a vile creature threatening to devour all that was once good.

it is this poem that polarises blair as the good - ie, the sanity in the insane, and tolwyn as obviously the bad, despite all that they went thru - together in the bloody war.

cheers

joe
 
Well...

There are some things that keep me from believing that Tolwyn "slid gradually" into his current state.

He just seems to be very very put off with Blair ALL the time. Thats how he acts in the games. Realisticly he should love Blair because Blair save humanity time and time again, and sometimes even saved Tolwyns butt in the process.

The best expanation I've seen for this is actually in one of the WCA Episodes, where Tolwyn talks about his Pride keeping him from seeing something important. I always felt that part in the series was very much out of place (even taking into account that the Academy Episodes aren't canon) because that's not something someone like Tolwyn would ever really say.

My personal take is that Tolwyn lives and dies by his pride and his honor, and anyone who assumes pride or honor cannot ever have Tolwyn's respect.

Some might say that Jason Bondarevsky stole from Tolwyn's honor with the Tarawa raid, but remember, that raid was succesful only because the Tarawa got out again. Without the Intelligence they provided the rest of the war would not go the same way. And it was Tolwyn who got them out, not to mention helping to lead the attack at Vukar Tag. And it was Tolwyn who was on the Tarawa when it went into Kilrathi space, and who hand carried the information back to Confed.

I think Tolwyn was just playing for power the whole time the war was going on, but that's me, I hate Tolwyn.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
There are some things that keep me from believing that Tolwyn "slid gradually" into his current state.

......


I think Tolwyn was just playing for power the whole time the war was going on, but that's me, I hate Tolwyn.
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yup i rekon thats exactly it ! see he was always like that - if by birth or by war, but what the kilrtahi war gave him was a sense of direction to funnel that ambition and/or anger... with the war over he was left to his own devices...
 
I belive the war is a major part that fueled his transfer to what he ended up being. In a way I can agree that he was allways hungry for power but I dont think he was in the way where he was going to direct it the way he was. The end of the war did that.
 
I posted in another thread awhile back how I thought Tolwyn was a classic example of a tragic hero, in the Shakespearean mode. Malcolm McDowell did a very good job in helping that image in his performance.
 
I think tolwyns a power hungry malicious parasite.

I was always torn in WC3 between deciding who the real Enemy was. Then I played Wc4 and hated Tolwyn more, then I played WC2 and made it my lifes mission to hate Tolwyn. Then I read the novels and became confused as hell.

Tolwyn's not a Hero. He's a greedy honor/power hungry freak who has to deman those around him to build up his own position...for absolutly no purpose whatsoever.

If there hadn't been a Kilrathi War, Tolwyn would have ended up running a criminal orginization that killed people for fun. I'm damn sure of it.
 
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