Thoughts on new Star Trek movie (*spoilers!*)

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by frostytheplebe, May 8, 2009.

  1. Farbourne

    Farbourne Rear Admiral

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    1). LOAF beat me to it, but some of them definitely SHOULD exist. The Doomsday machine, for example, would have been built and en-route to our galaxy long before the Kelvin was commissioned, or Kirk's father was even born, so it's hard to believe that Nero showing up would and destroying the Kelvin would have any effect on it having to be dealt with at some point. Likewise for V'ger, Nomad, etc. Sure some things might be different...with Kirk's brother following a different path, maybe the brain plague thing happens differently...but some things are still very much out there.

    2). I wasn't suggesting that they should have put that stuff in the movie. I definitely wouldn't "clutter it up", as you say. I'm not even suggesting that they should show up in future movies. (Although if they do have any plans of using the reboooted movie as a launching point for yet another new TV series, I'm afraid all these issues give the writers very big handles to write episodes around instead of creatively coming up with new plots). I was just posing an interesting question.

    Agree with LOAF that I would like to see a completely original story (if there is such a thing in Hollywood anymore), but that it would be fun to see a bunch of the iconic old TOS stuff get "burned off" acknowledging that maybe stuff like that did happen.
     
  2. NinjaLA

    NinjaLA Alex Von T.

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    maybe we'll get alternate reality Startrek TOS on the TeeVee after the success of the movie so far.
     
  3. ck9791

    ck9791 Rear Admiral

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    I saw this movie yesterday and I thought it was pretty good. I have some complaints about how certain things looked in the movie but I thought the story was good and fast paced. My biggest complaint though is about all of the close ups and quick cuts with the camera, which I didn't like. I would have preferred more shots that were farther back and would have given you a better view of the set. I was particularly frustrated with this on the Kelvin, I wanted to look around and see the bridge, the uniforms, the crew, and the camera either moved real face or focused on someone so that everything behind them was blurry.
     
  4. frostytheplebe

    frostytheplebe Seventh Part of the Seal

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    Maybe... but I doubt it. I also hope not, I mean do you really think they'll be able to get the same actors to do the TV show?

    Plus at least for now, it seems that the ST people are focussing more on movies then TV shows now after the failure of Enterprise.
    And the Farragut, and I think I heard someone mention being assigned to the Essex as well. Also, did anyone else see the Miranda class ship as part of Pike's attack fleet?
     
  5. privfan

    privfan Commodore

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    I'm still wondering how they got 800 people on the handful of shuttles the kelvin launched?
     
  6. frostytheplebe

    frostytheplebe Seventh Part of the Seal

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    I want to know how there were 800 people on such a small ship when the Enterprise herself initially only had... what 140 I think was the count back when Pike was in command and around 450 during Kirk's time?
     
  7. ELTEE

    ELTEE Rear Admiral

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    replicators, duh.
     
  8. Tigerhawk

    Tigerhawk Captain

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    I did see that, yes...thought it was rather odd that such a class of ship appeared so early in the timeline regardless of how the timeline was changed via the Kelvin.
     
  9. frostytheplebe

    frostytheplebe Seventh Part of the Seal

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    Well I'm not sure if its actually confirmed anywhere, but there was speculation that the Miranda class was around during Kirk's early adventures. The differences being it had no "Roll bar" with additional weapons mountings, the nacelles looked just like the ones on the original Enterprise, and on the lowest part of the saucer, a pylon jutted out with a deflector dish attached. Given that we see about three different models of the Miranda (Reliant, Saratoga(DS9), and the Lantree), this may be the best explanation. (See ST Legacy for a more detailed model).

    I guess the movie sort of confirms its existence.
     

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  10. Farbourne

    Farbourne Rear Admiral

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    I don't find it particularly surprising. Some classes of ships, for whatever reason, probably just stick around for a long long time, continually getting upgrades instead of being replaced. Heck, the Constitution Class underwent multiple upgrades that changed its appearance and capabilities--compare all the different NCC-1701's that we see.

    Just because we saw something that *looked* like a Miranda class in the movie doesn't mean that it had all the capabilities that Reliant (or other Mirandas we're familiar with) had. WWII era Midway class carriers stayed in service through the 1980's and into the 1990's...that doesn't mean that the USS Midway in 1945 had anything resembling the technology or capabilities that she had in 1990.

    Also, is it certain that it was a Miranda? There was at least one class that looked almost identical to the Miranda class (the Soryuz (sp?) class), and possibly more.
     
  11. Deacan

    Deacan Commodore

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    Well, easy answer: they simply make the ship bigger: ca. 700 meters overall. And no, thats not a joke...

    Just go over here: http://ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/new_enterprise_comment.htm#size
     
  12. privfan

    privfan Commodore

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    new voyages has a nice take on a TOS miranda class
    http://www.btinternet.com/~ady1971/copernicus1893.jpg
     
  13. Death

    Death gh0d (Administrator)

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  14. Zelvik

    Zelvik Rear Admiral

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    Finaly made it to the cinema to watch the new Trek.

    I have mixed feelings about the film. While it took some time to get comfortable with the rebooting concept after reading the first reviews I actually like it. It took away the burdening canon/continuity problems of all the shows and movies that preceded it. The cast and acting of most of the prime characters was quite good, and I have to fall in with the pack and point out that the new McCoy was a great choice. Spock, Sulu, Scotty and Uhura were good and I came to like the new Kirk as well. The only one I didnt buy was Chekov. So the good point for me is that from here on there may be a nice new Star Trek continuity with new show, new films whatever that I probably will enjoy.

    The bad part was the movie plot itself. The villain and his crew of miners was just unconvincing starting from Neros motivations to the question that was thrust into your face of why nobody aboard his frigging ship of civilians oposed him (one man going nuts over all this may be reasonable, but a whole bunch of civilians beeing thrust through time just to go on a destructive rampage of vengeance against the federation? - oh come on). The second part I realy disliked was this chain of strange fortuity. Old Spock not beeing placed under arrest on Neros ship, beeing cast out on Vulcans twin planet(moon?), Kirk running into him there, then running into Scotty, Scotty/Old Spock knowing a not ever heard of way to beam over large distances to ships in warp speed. Well and the ending was realy anticlimactic. Baddies beeing pulled into the black hole (actually why was the Enterprise fireing torpedoes at them when it was actually already crystal clear that Neros ship would be sucked into the black hole - and actually was already within it at that point). Last point is Neros ships design (a minor point). It realy felt out of place as a Romulan mining vessel - beeing such an unseen behemoth with no design continuity to any Romulan vessel up to date. They could have done better with it Id say. Beeing able to wipe out a whole flotillia of Starfleet vessels and a whole Klingon fleet is ok with me. A modern freighter equiped with a semi modern piece of artillery probably could sink the whole royal navy of the early 19th century.
     
  15. scheherazade

    scheherazade Rear Admiral

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    Alternate timeline was the only practical tool for modern producers to basically "do everything over", without enraging all the nerds to the point that they would stop buying all the new star-trek crap.

    First, I went into the movie with the approach that it is star-trek-2.0, and I'm not expecting anything (style wise) from the previous (I am a triekkie, so I would go nuts if I hadn't just 'let it go' to start out with).

    That said, I was pleased with how much they did touch back onto the original series. I thought most of my complaints would be about the story getting raped and mangled. (And they would have, had I not given up ahead of time, as per my sentence-2).

    My only real complaint is that the movie was too A.D.D.. (Which has multiple dimensions and supporting moments.)

    There was very little character development, and whatever development there was felt rushed.
    It felt like : "Here's every major point in this person's life experience, pertaining to how they are here and how they are important, all crammed into 2 minutes"

    And the action was over the top (in the bad way).
    You couldn't get a rest. It was either : Chasing, running, falling, getting shot at, explosions, screaming, arguing, mandatory-micro-romance-scene, etc.
    The non-stop-shit-happening was so over the top that I could barely take it.
    There was no time for any setting of mood, or time provided to suspend disbelief and absorb into the film. I mean, how can literally EVERY LAST STEP SOMEONE TAKES lead, WITHIN SECONDS, to another disaster, that they LUCKILLY get out of, only to get into ANOTHER disaster seconds later. It got to the point where I felt like smacking my face and dragging down my palm. (I literally did at one point... Kirk fights with romulans, kirk jumps down ~4 stories inside the romulan ship... AND was followed... AND pulls the guys gun, AND pulls himself up after almost falling (all of this after the shootout in the cargo hold))

    The things I liked :
    - federation ship design was NICE. they modernized the look without wrecking the old style.
    - actors were chosen well.

    (pardon the name spellings)
    Kirk looked like kirk. Attitude was as expected.

    Spock looked right. He was less stoic than I would have liked, but he is younger than in the other movies. The eyebrow-raise was turned into a bit of a joke-moment-thing, rather than a moment of concern or enlightenment. But whatever.

    Ohura was done well. I was relieved that she had more depth than in the other movies.

    Sulu didn't get enough time, but the actor was decent looking for the part. Still think of harold and kumar though. :p

    Dr McCoy was stellar. Looked right. Acted right. Mannerisms were honest to the original.

    Chekov looked wrong, but he did the whole 'broken russian' thing well. Granted that it's all-wrong anyways (They have a 'v' sound in russian, so he man obviously must have a speech impediment because as a russian he should have NO PROBLEM saying a 'v' sound).

    Scotty was a joke (literally). I wish they had made him a serious character. But I guess when you're working with a comic actor you just want to use him that way.



    Things I didn't like :

    Accidentally finding spock on the ice planet? wtf? Talk about stupid odds...

    And the ice-monster thing? Come on.. it wrecks some giant snow-tiger-thing, but cap'n is out running/dodging it for how long? sigh... (another breaking suspension of disbelief)

    The other vulcan kids that were picking on Spock would only do so out of emotion... so that's kind of out of character. No info is given about vulcan kids and their emotional state, so I can kind of let it go.

    Scotty and the whole trans-warp-teleport-argument-thingy, just seemed rushed and out of place. And the "hey let's put in some other calculations and WHAMO!, your teleporter can now go way far!" moment was just too convenient. That sort of "Hey, let's do X Y Z and BAM, we've got a solution!" approach was more appropriate for TNG and later series. Just seemed out of place in the original star trek setting.

    The Romulan design was just over the top. It looked way too obvious that they were trying to create a 'creepy scary' enemy. The tattoos, dark setting, jagged ship, etc... it was trying to too hard. I was left thinking "Oh brother... yes, I get it... they are the bad guys... "

    The regulation that 'spock can't get mad'... yeah, I also thought that was too convenient. And kind of stupid. People get mad on a regular basis, that kind of rule is just unrealistic and again, breaks suspension of disbelief.

    And old spock leaving young spock in the dark so that "kirk and spock can be pals-4-lyfe"? Seriously? Endanger the success of something so important as saving a planet by leaving one actor under informed, just to 'make pals'? That's just some stupid shit... Another broken suspension of disbelief moment.

    2 or 3 continuity issues. Not star-trek-wise. I mean movie wise. A couple times the actors suddenly are somewhere without moving, or one moment have an item and in the next it's gone. Just editing screw ups. A few were just a bit too obvious. Not important enough for me to remember now, but I turned to my gf a couple times and said "um, wtf did he get the (whatever) from all of a sudden?" Another broken suspension of disbelief moment.

    Teleporter lock being a game of 'pew pew shoot the dot with the box' is 'lulz'. Another broken suspension of disbelief moment.

    Also, they could have picked something harder than 'the volume of a sphere' for background formula recitation during the vulcan kids education/testing thingy... it doesn't exactly reek of intelligence. Another broken suspension of disbelief moment.

    There's more, but I could pick on the movie all day... (It's not this movie only, though. It's how pretty much every movie is made these days.)

    I guess I just felt like I was being spoon-fed the whole time with cheap attempts at tugging an emotion out of me. Trying to make me scared, or worried, or excited, or angered, or whatever. Each attempt so obvious, and so poorly integrated, that instead of working, I just thought "oh come on!".

    The movie had little substance beyond the purely topical "Bang, zoom, LOOK OUT!".

    So, I just took it as a mindless explosion-show... and it was a good mindless explosion show.

    What-evz...



    But I won't call it a good action movie...

    The days of setting up an intense moment for an hour are gone.
    How long was it before you saw an 'alien' in 'alien'? An hour? (not counting the face sucker).

    There was tons of time spent setting mood and place in blade runner, before there was any real fighting. (Unless you count the split second when the first replicant did one gun shot and the scene cut away...)

    Even predator, or terminator. How much time were people wandering around before the blasting started? Talking about creepy jungle stories, or talking about the future?

    Action movies used to really set a mood and place. Today's action movies just go straight into "boom". That's no satisfaction in shit getting blown up, if you've just watched explosions for an hour straight. Especially if you have had no character development and you don't give a crap about the people getting blown up, or doing the blowing up.

    -scheherazade
     
  16. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    Don't do this.
     
  17. frostytheplebe

    frostytheplebe Seventh Part of the Seal

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    Unfortunately, I have to agree with the gripe about the Romulan ship. It just didn't look/feel Romulan, there was nothing recognizably Romulan about it. No Bird of prey no nothing...
     
  18. Frosty

    Frosty a full fledged GF

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    That's because it wasn't a bird of prey.
     
  19. AD

    AD Finder of things, Doer of stuff

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    Not that it's explained in the movie or anything, but it wasn't exactly a Romulan ship anymore. The backstory is that it's a mining ship that has been outfitted with Borg technology. That's what all the spires and jaggedy things on the outside of it are.

    Oddly, when I went to the movie with my wife, as soon as it first emerges from the... wormhole at the start, she asked me if it was a borg ship, and she's not even that much into Star Trek.

    The stuff about the ship being cavernous doesn't bother me either since I imagine a lot of that space is for storing ore.
     
  20. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

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    They also take time *in the movie* to make fun of this -- 'if that ship's layout is remotely reasonable then I'm beaming you into a storage compartment without anyone around' {Kirk and Spock materialize in the middle of the enemy bridge.}
     

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