The Movie - Yeah, you hate it. But how would you fix it?

Wojo

Rear Admiral
Wow, you're right... Good spotting AD! (Sansky and cross) You can just see the point of the dagger section...

As for 'firing solution' - it just bugged me that in the Wing Commander Movie universe both the terrans and the kilrathi apparently had such a parallel evolution culturally and linguistically that the rather precise wording was an acceptable term in both languages... It just appeared to me that the term 'Firing Solution' sounds more like a subtitle for some Kilrathi word or idea (i.e a best-fit translation), whereas we (terrans) might use a more colloquial term like "They have a lock" or "they've locked on"... It's the most minor gripe of the century, but repetition is my enemy. My enemy is repetition. Enemy mine is repetition. Repetition, my enemy is.

In terms of Kilrathi dialogue... it was all just so matter of fact. There was nothing to describe their culture or feeling, just plain reaction to events. The scene of a kilrathi captain praying to an idol of sivar would just blow that to bits... awesome. Buy yes, my point is that it WOULD be easy enough to just change the subtitles... And easy to add more also. The firing solution discussion above alludes to that - to me the term 'firing solution' sounds very doctrinal and militant, very disconnected from the fact that you are killing someone - perhaps some aspect of kilrathi culture that is being communicated through the dialogue...

Mine trick - Is that a reference to Seether from Wc4 and his little 'drop mine and ride the shockwave' dealie? Or a play on words for 'Mind Trick' a la Jedi?
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
The mine trick is having your mine explode behind yourself and you riding the shockwave. It is no different from "putting the pedal to the metal", or actually "challenging" your opposers to show off how good you are. And yes, it is a reference to Seether in WC4.
 

Sierra

Spaceman
I am sorry for my English.

Whether you know, what in film WC is amusing bag? It consists in an erroneous writing of a surname of an admiral.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
I am sorry for my English.

Whether you know, what in film WC is amusing bag? It consists in an erroneous writing of a surname of an admiral.

Yes! For those that absolutely hate that they misspelled Tolwyn, I imagine we could fix that too.
 

Sierra

Spaceman
In Russia WC very popular game. And a film. At me, for example, two licence copies on DVD and VHS.

For a long time wished to write.

I do not know, while how here to attach pictures, but I can explain.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
In Russia WC very popular game. And a film. At me, for example, two licence copies on DVD and VHS.

Same here, everyone my age has played it, but most of them do not know there even was a movie. Are you using babelfish as a translator tool?
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
So here's a little video clip to look at to illustrate what we're talking about. This is a short clip from the film in two parts. The first part I have reorganized some of the dialogue and removed other bits, where the second part of the clip is the original scene.

I appoligize for not cleaning up the audio since it does take you out of the scene a bit when the music cuts out but I hope you get a sense of what is possible with an edit. Even more is possible if we had access to the original film stock since we would have alternate takes and angles to use as well.

With changing a few lines I've essentially changed the tone of the scene and motivations and also quickened the pace of the film's endgame since - face it - having Blair stop to chat with Angel kind of kills the momentum of the final act. While the end result of what I have sampled here may not be 100% desireable I hope you all get an idea of just how far you can take things.

DOWNLOAD h264: http://outlander.solsector.net/vid_files/test_edit.avi
 

G Man

Rear Admiral
So again, the question is, given that you can't change the actors, ships or set designs, or even the script, what do you think or how do you think you could make the film more agreeable?

Well if you put it that way, then there's no way I could change it for the better. But yes, as you mention one of the problems with the film is the bad editing/structuring. I would definetely change the final scene, which was a very weak way to end a film (they all shake hands and Angel is wheeled to the medical bay).

But I thought the film was a total misfire, if it was up to me I'd change the whole thing, first the ships, the interiors and everything because they all looked rubbish, then the main cast - take out the crap teen movie actors Freddie Prinze Jr and Matthew Lillard, Saffron Burrows (not a bad actress but hopeless here), that black girl who's annoyingly cocky character wasn't in any of the games. The only actors I'd consider keeping would be Jurgen Prochnow and Tcheky Karyo who gave the hands-down best performance in the film, but it was totally different character to the genial Scotsman in the games and I'd rather go back to them.

I'd make the look of the whole thing closer to the games. I don't know what Roberts was trying to say about them since he changed everything so radically here. The cutscenes of WC3 and WC4 would make much better films if you edited them together and I've seen this amateur Rifftrax/Mystery Science Theatre 3000 version of WC4 on Youtube so I can tell you the cutscenes don't really work the same as a "film" (because of pacing and all that)
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Well if you put it that way, then there's no way I could change it for the better. But yes, as you mention one of the problems with the film is the bad editing/structuring. I would definetely change the final scene, which was a very weak way to end a film (they all shake hands and Angel is wheeled to the medical bay).

We know a lot of people just don't like the look of things. We get it. That's not what this thread is about though and there are countless other threads for that kind of reply and discussion. But making snide "no way I could make it better" remarks just ignores not only your own potential but the facts presented. If it makes you feel any better, then pretend it's set whenever and wherever you want. Just don't go off on that tangent in this thread.

That aside, I apreciated that you mentioned the movie's ending. In the script the medic is actually supposed to stop Blair from kissing Angel. Paladin and Gerald are supposed to talk about the ongoing threat of the Kilrathi.

In an earlier draft the film was supposed to end with a Medal ceremony (a la WC1) with everyone is dress uniforms. Blair wasn't supposed to know Angel was alive yet. And so of course there's the emoition of seeing her there... and then the stuff with Tolwyn was mixed in with the ceremony. Basically Tolwyn reveals that he was using them and didn't really expect the Claw to make it... It was kind of setting up Blair's mistrust of Tolwyn for future sequels.

As for the last scene, well The flightdeck scene wasn't supposed to be climax of the film and neither was the anti-climactic "Shoot them one at a time" scene that we got.

There was supposed to be a big fight on the Concom between Blair and Gerald after which they kill the Pilgrim traiter, then go back to the Claw and confront the other Traitor on the Claw. The message drone system is locked out by the traiter, so that's why Blair has to make the jump in a fighter. The whole end is a race to Sol... The tension is supposed to be whether he makes it on time or not (and whether the Claw survives since she's buying the fleet time). Instead the structure of the final film is a letdown since it acts like it's building up to a big fleet battle instead. So I can see why hugs on the flightdeck just isn't good enough.

To be fair, they probably didn't have the budget to make a set of dress uniforms for the *entire* cast for one 2 or three minute scene at the end of the movie.
 

G Man

Rear Admiral
Sorry for my "snide remarks", it's just when I read your original post my first reaction was thinking most of the things about the film needed changing. Top of the list (or in the top 3) would have been getting rid of Freddie Prinze Jr, terrible actor (I'm by no means the only one who thinks so).

First saw this film in about 2000 (maybe 2001). I've probably seen it twice all the way through, watched bits of it when it's popped on TV a few times (as you do), so I don't remember it all off by heart, but the last part of the film, probably from the bit where they go on board that ship in red space suits onwards, seemed very rushed, like there had been a lot of last minute changes. I don't think it was that easy to follow what was going on, or at rather things seemed to be happening too fast. To me this film doesn't feel like it has that much of an ending (and I'm not talking about the final scene). So if the final act had better structure, it would definetely be an improvement. I wouldn't save the whole film in my opinion, but plot and story structuring is important.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
So did anything ever come of this? I'd love to watch an "edited as much as possible to make it better" movie...

Well, I've worked on an "everything includeded as much as possible" version for starters. It needs some minor tweaking and is mostly an effort to put things as close to the shooting script as possible. Stuff is rearanged back where it goes and deleted scenes are reinsterted as much as possible. The powers that be won't let us release any of the deleted stuff yet though but you may get to watch something of the sort if you can make your way to this year's dragoncon.

A lot of the deleted stuff was sad to have lost, but as usual some stuff is better left deleted. As for an "edited as much as possible" version, I haven't really had the time yet to edit the film extensively to that effect. I did play around with a few scenes so far. I was looking to see how much you could limit the "never existed" subtext... It... is doable. Though messy. I'd have to work to find an elegant solution to make the surrounding scenes flow better.

The angel/blair heart to heart in the fighter pods is also excisable withouth too much difficultly though it also means limiting the romance subplot. Essentially cut the kiss from the end and remove that scene that slows the ending down too much anyway. THat solution is a little harsh though, and I experimented with just having Angel convice blair of his duty without him saying much... that worked nicely and was better than just having Blair take off to sol without caring.

There *is* an ok fan edit of the regular DVD out there though... but it doesn't have any of the deleted scenes.
 

gavinfoxx

Rear Admiral
Well, I'd love to see a "Put everything in first, and then take stuff out piecemeal so it makes sense and actually makes a better movie" version. When might that be possible to buy?
 

razgriz21

Spaceman
Basically, make it a compressed version of Heart of The Tiger or The Price of Freedom.

Also, make the fighter designs like the ones from the games (1-4).

I'll come up with more but I'm tired now.
 

gavinfoxx

Rear Admiral
Basically, make it a compressed version of Heart of The Tiger or The Price of Freedom.

Also, make the fighter designs like the ones from the games (1-4).

I'll come up with more but I'm tired now.

Ya, I can tell you're tired! Reread the first few posts of the thread to see what they are actually asking for, and what they can actually do! ;)
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Well, I'd love to see a "Put everything in first, and then take stuff out piecemeal so it makes sense and actually makes a better movie" version. When might that be possible to buy?

That won't happen for a couple years. I think Fox's deal runs till 2014 (15 years) and it's pretty much up to Chris Roberts after that. Either a successful new game could give him the impetus to do it or he's try and shove it under the rug further.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Yeah, well, I said 'nearly'. :)

I mean, when I saw AD quote 15 years, I thought, 'oh, that's not going to be for a while'. Then I saw the 2014 and realised that isn't very far away at all. Which means that it's actually been a lot longer since the movie was released than my mind was telling me.
 
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