Delta_Strife
Rear Admiral
Or germany the split it into 4 parts and it took 50 years or more for them to reunite.
The Confed has TCS for ships what have Kilrathi???
- Thread starter gevatter Lars
- Start date
Let's see...
A united Kilrah with a navy could...
1.) Police their own pirates.
2.) Patrol the Mantu border.
3.) Fight off a Nephilim battle fleet on their own.
I'm sure you could come up with more reasons.
Of the above, the most important would obviously be the first. Sure, Confed can continue to police the Kilrathi pirates, and will undoubtedly smash any raids they catch, but its much more difficult for pirates to operate in areas that are patrolled by a regular navy. And while it is possible that some Kilrathi might turn elements of the navy into their own private raiding fleet, Confed won't be any worse off than it currently is.
And if the Kilrathi REALLY want to push the issue, they only have to look to Kilrah to remember why that might be a bad idea.
A united Kilrah with a navy could...
1.) Police their own pirates.
2.) Patrol the Mantu border.
3.) Fight off a Nephilim battle fleet on their own.
I'm sure you could come up with more reasons.
Of the above, the most important would obviously be the first. Sure, Confed can continue to police the Kilrathi pirates, and will undoubtedly smash any raids they catch, but its much more difficult for pirates to operate in areas that are patrolled by a regular navy. And while it is possible that some Kilrathi might turn elements of the navy into their own private raiding fleet, Confed won't be any worse off than it currently is.
And if the Kilrathi REALLY want to push the issue, they only have to look to Kilrah to remember why that might be a bad idea.
Delta_Strife
Rear Admiral
Yes i ment those parts but your right three ofthem joined to form west Germany and the Russian side formed East Germany.
The key is that they could patrol areas, coordinate sweeps of possible trouble spots, and hopefully root out pirate bases. Right now, the Kilrathi navy is probably divided up into a number of smaller fleets, each based on a particular clan, and probably very little coordination between some of them. If a group of pirates starts to operate in a border area, then you've got multiple clans that need to get involved in clearing them out.
As an example, lets say that there are a group of Kilrathi pirates operating out of a base on the Confed border. Unfortunately, that spot also happens to be the border line between two different clans. One of the clans happens to be friendly toward Confed, while the other does not. Confed approaches the two clans about a possible pirate group that may be operating in its territory. One clan decides to make some additional patrols along the border to try and smoke out the pirate base, while the other couldn't care less, so long as the pirates stick to attacking hairless apes.
Confed, on the other hand, is reduced to trying to catch the pirates in the act, and backtrack them to their home. Confed could attempt to survey likely systems for the pirate base, but that would be risking a confrontation with the local clan over sovereignty issues, and cause possible resentment among clans that might otherwise be predisposed to respect and cooperate with Confed.
A unified Kilrathi navy, on the other hand, could assign a single small task group to conduct a careful sweep through the systems suspected to be the home of the pirates. Clan borders wouldn't matter because the navy task group answered to the Kilrathi nation, not to a specific clan lord.
As an example, lets say that there are a group of Kilrathi pirates operating out of a base on the Confed border. Unfortunately, that spot also happens to be the border line between two different clans. One of the clans happens to be friendly toward Confed, while the other does not. Confed approaches the two clans about a possible pirate group that may be operating in its territory. One clan decides to make some additional patrols along the border to try and smoke out the pirate base, while the other couldn't care less, so long as the pirates stick to attacking hairless apes.
Confed, on the other hand, is reduced to trying to catch the pirates in the act, and backtrack them to their home. Confed could attempt to survey likely systems for the pirate base, but that would be risking a confrontation with the local clan over sovereignty issues, and cause possible resentment among clans that might otherwise be predisposed to respect and cooperate with Confed.
A unified Kilrathi navy, on the other hand, could assign a single small task group to conduct a careful sweep through the systems suspected to be the home of the pirates. Clan borders wouldn't matter because the navy task group answered to the Kilrathi nation, not to a specific clan lord.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
But it has been clearly demonstrated that Confed goes roughshod over Kilrathi sovereignty whenever it's necessary. They took out a pirate base in Valgard, they have strike forces running around Kilrathi territory whenever they feel like it, and they have (had?) a military base at Tal'q. Now, if Confed has such a degree of control over Kilrathi space, then probably the last thing they'd want to see is a united Kilrathi Navy, because then the Kilrathi might demand that some parts of the Treaty of Torgo be revised.
TC
SubCrid
Hehe... part of the treaty involved Kilrathi disarmament. One notes that they have no large warships in Wing Commander 4. Confed also clearly not only ignores Kilrathi space but thinks as Kilrathi space as theirs. Their use of it is probably also allowed in the treaty... note the following :
They entered our space at Kilrah Page 14, ICIS
If the enemy's entry point into our space can be sealed... Page 17, ICIS
Confed has a Military Prison on Valgard Page 25, ICIS
The Epsilon Sector Governor Stella Lee appears to have authority over Valgard Page 25 ICIS
Confed has (circa 2681.017) an Astronomical Station, the TCS Devereaus, at least four Surveillance Outposts (big enough to carry recon groups) and the Kilrah 6 Colony in the Kilrah system alone.
Confed has (circa 2681.017) a naval base in Tal'q with at least one corvette and an air-defense battalion
They entered our space at Kilrah Page 14, ICIS
If the enemy's entry point into our space can be sealed... Page 17, ICIS
Confed has a Military Prison on Valgard Page 25, ICIS
The Epsilon Sector Governor Stella Lee appears to have authority over Valgard Page 25 ICIS
Confed has (circa 2681.017) an Astronomical Station, the TCS Devereaus, at least four Surveillance Outposts (big enough to carry recon groups) and the Kilrah 6 Colony in the Kilrah system alone.
Confed has (circa 2681.017) a naval base in Tal'q with at least one corvette and an air-defense battalion
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Exactly... though I wonder about how much attention Confed really paid to Kilrathi disarmament. I mean, apart from the events in False Colors, the Kilrathi seem to have had a fleet of some sort in WCP (since the Fralthi II cruiser was apparently on the edge of the plasma weapon's target area), and Confed seemed more bothered by the ease with which they were destroyed than by their actual existence.
Personally, I've always figured that Confed seized certain systems following the war, and allowed the Kilrathi to retain nominal control of the rest. Confed can't realistically govern the Kilrathi if only because of the sheer quantity of them. The fact that they have their own ships indicates that they've been allowed to retain their autonomy, but Confed has taken control of some of the more significant systems. In addition, the age of the Kilrathi ships in the game (all of which date back to WC3) indicate that the Kilrathi haven't recovered to the point where they can begin large scale construction of more modern ships.
Kilrah, being the former heart of the Empire, and a prime spot for a "shrine" honoring the Kilrathi killed in the war (if the Kilrathi go for that sort of thing), would be way up at the top of the list of systems for Confed to take direct control of, along with systems that provide access to Kilrah.
Kilrah, being the former heart of the Empire, and a prime spot for a "shrine" honoring the Kilrathi killed in the war (if the Kilrathi go for that sort of thing), would be way up at the top of the list of systems for Confed to take direct control of, along with systems that provide access to Kilrah.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
The last three posts all have good points, but I disagree slightly with this bit:
I thought the way this was written was using "our" as meaning all space known to Confed, ie the Confederation, Kilrathi, Firekka, Landreich, etc. But, I suppose it could be interpreted to mean anything.
What about Confed's seemingly free reign of Kilrathi space?
I think if Confed can handle all those hundreds of systems it already has, it would be able to do a military occupation of the hundreds that the Kilrathi have.
Confed also probably has some control over any Kilrathi shipyards. Any WC3 era ships are probably ships that are still left over from the war.
Perhaps you're referring to something from the novels? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here. In the game, the Midway pursues the Nephilim back to the Kilrah system (which is clearly Confed controlled, to the point that the only Kilrathi presence in the system is both hidden and illegal). It could be that the peace treaty provides Confed Navy right of passage anywhere within Kilrathi space. It could be that Confed has nominal control of or right of passage rights within the systems that the Midway passed through. It could also be that some of the systems (such as the one with the Kilrathi colony world) are nominally Kilrathi controlled, and the presence of the Midway would have caused a Kilrathi diplomatic protest were it not for the fact that a military emergency was in effect, and the Midway's presence was desperately needed by the Kilrathi.
Confed handles the systems it already has control over because the residents of those systems happen to, for the most part, be voluntary residents of the Confederation. With the notable exceptions of the UBW and the Landreich, humanity by and large seems satisfied with rulership from Earth.
The Kilrathi are another matter entirely. There is no indication that they would voluntarily accept life under direct control of the Confederation, and the fact that Kilrathi worlds that voluntarily switched sides during the war (Gorah Kar, for example) are now once again under Kilrathi control seems to suggest that the Kilrathi retain a large degree of autonomy.
Also worth noting is that, while I haven't read the novel in question, the Landreich's post-war problem with the Kilrathi suggests that Confed is not involved in actively policing the Kilrathi territories.
As far as new construction goes, I suspect that Confed has placed strict limits on what the Kilrathi can and cannot do. They are probably allowed to maintain a navy of limited size for their own local security and protection (and to provide a buffer in case the Mantu ever feel acquisitive), and to replace ships that are lost, but strict limits are probably in place that regulate exactly how large the navy can be.
Reasons for still using WC3 era ships could be due to regulations that restrict R&D of new ships and technology, or could be due to the fact that the Kilrathi nation is in such poor shape that R&D is in a shambles.
Personally, I suspect its a mixture of both. After all, even within Confed, most of the fighters in use are still war era.
t.c.cgi
Vice Admiral
Well they "defected" because they didn't like what the Kilrathi elite soldiers were doing. When the war was over, and the regime that ran the elite were blown to smitherines with Kilrah, the reason for their defect was gone. It's not like they said "Wow, those confeds have a realy nice government." hehe
Not an arguement against/with, just felt the need to add clarity.
I tend to view the Kilrathi (around WC
) as a loose grouping clans which pretty much go their own way. They probably use the Assembly to settle disputes (make sure there isn't an all out clan war) and present a more or less united face to the Humans, but it doesn't have an real power over the clan leaders
As for their military though, it was mentioned in FC that Confed was bending over backwards not to kick the Kilrathi when they were down. It's quite possible that some cof those clans leaders/warlords were allowed to get away with quite significant breaches of the treaty, and might have reasonably powerfull fleets tucked away.
Best, Raptor
) as a loose grouping clans which pretty much go their own way. They probably use the Assembly to settle disputes (make sure there isn't an all out clan war) and present a more or less united face to the Humans, but it doesn't have an real power over the clan leadersAs for their military though, it was mentioned in FC that Confed was bending over backwards not to kick the Kilrathi when they were down. It's quite possible that some cof those clans leaders/warlords were allowed to get away with quite significant breaches of the treaty, and might have reasonably powerfull fleets tucked away.
Best, Raptor