The Behemoth

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Christmas came early for you Dundradal... I'm reviving the B. debate because of a comment you made.

There were more then one of the Behemoth class? Seriously, why?

Besides sucking down resources to build, and keep operational, they serve but one purpose.

When we see one built we figure, "Ok, it was built to end the war."

Well... the war is over, why are you building more of them? You think about it, how many habitable worlds were destroyed during the Kilrathi war? Now you want a couple of them running around?

First, from what we can see of the thing, I don't think they carried fighters... which is a shame, think of how many squadrons that could carry, secondly, even with tight defenses, a Behemoth class would be far from an impregnable fortress. Given the size and the layout of what ever defense it would have, something could creap up on it from behind, given that theres no real way they could defend the back, and take it down. Without fleet support, it would be nothing more then a massive coffin for it's crew.
 
frostytheplebe said:
There were more then one of the Behemoth class? Seriously, why?

Besides sucking down resources to build, and keep operational, they serve but one purpose.

When we see one built we figure, "Ok, it was built to end the war."

Well... the war is over, why are you building more of them? You think about it, how many habitable worlds were destroyed during the Kilrathi war? Now you want a couple of them running around?
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Your response seems appropriate for the 2670s, when there wasn't a real huge outstanding threat. Obviously they're a huge expenditure of resources, so someone would need a good reason to build more.

...and that reason is the Nephilim. We know very little detail about the 2680s and 2690s, but we do know there was a devastating war that required incredible offensive measures on behalf of the Confederation. Behemoth class ships were part of this offense.
 
The question why I ask is, what use is the/a Behemoth against the Nephilim, when the Nephilim have no use for planets?
 
Yeah, it's Behemoth-class dreadnoughts, plural, not just one. We do know the name of at least one though, the TCS Gargantuan.

Your and Frosty's question doesn't have a specific answer though, beyond the fact that they were used to fight the Nephilim. What if the Nephilim start to field planet-size monstrosities? What if the Behemoths prove to be effective (and nimble?) weapon platforms in fluidic space? Maybe Behemoths laid waste to the massive shipyards that build (grow?) scores of Kraken squadrons. We can only speculate about the details.
 
Isn't there an old tradition to build at least two of everything? I don't have the material you all refer to ready, but maybe she had a sister ship they couldn't make combat ready during the Kilrathi War (not that the Behemoth was for that matter).
Disregard that if they built it after the war.
 
They were most likely built after the war.

At the very least they were 100% completed when used and had improved defensive measures over the original.
 
Red Baron said:
Isn't there an old tradition to build at least two of everything? I don't have the material you all refer to ready, but maybe she had a sister ship they couldn't make combat ready during the Kilrathi War (not that the Behemoth was for that matter).
Disregard that if they built it after the war.
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Whether they did do this or not, it seems that they did build additional (more than one) after the Kilrathi War.
 
Yeah, it's Behemoth-class dreadnoughts, plural, not just one. We do know the name of at least one though, the TCS Gargantuan.
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I gather from that statement it must have been a throwaway side remark somewhere. It really could be anything, maybe the Behemoth design has been completely overhauled to something like a carrier? Maybe it doesn't have the BFG anymore...
Also, there's the possibility they only share the name, but are completely different ship types. Stuff like that happens. Think of the "Concordia class" carriers - the TCS Concordia wasn't one of those.
 
First off, the TCS Concordia was a Confederation-class dreadnought that shared the name of another class of ships. TCS Gargantuan, however, was specifically stated to be a Behemoth class ship just as the TCS Concordia in WC2 was specifically stated to be a Confederation-class dreadnought.

If it was a Behemoth-class ship than it would still be focused upon using that big planet destroying gun. It might have been altered design wise in some areas probably including hangar capacity, but the ship was built to be a death-star. Unlike the Confederation class dreadnoughts, which were built for more than just a faulty heavy gun, the Behemoth-class was meant to just be one big gun. Confed definitely wouldn't build more of these super ships just to have giant sized carriers (we already have plenty of those), they were built to act as clear-cut weapons to quickly destroy enemy infrastructure in a few blasts as Chris has already stated.
 
Right. Polaris Roads Station in WC Arena is noteworthy for having "berths large enough for even Hvar’kann and Behemoth-class dreadnaughts." The Hvar'kann being the 22-kilometer dreadnought on the Kilrathi side. The Behemoth had one purpose, it was an incredibly enormous gun 10 or 20 times the length of a heavy carrier. Repurposing it into a carrier would be a little like taking an army tank and converting it into a small tool box. :)
 
What I wanted to say or ask is, what reason do we have to believe, that the "Behemoth-class dreadnoughts" that are mentioned do look like The Behemoth from Wing Commander III. It could be possible it's a different ship class, which only by chance is called Behemoth class. Or is the big gun explictly mentioned as well? I don't remember the vessel from WC3 behing called "Behemoth class" in the game, only "The Behemoth", however maybe my memory is lacking.

That's why I mentioned the TCS Concordia (Confederation class) and the Concordia class light carrier. If you wouldn't have known what class the Concordia belongs to, and would have never heard of the Concordia class before, and then somebody mentions Concordia class carriers, you may think those might be the same class as the TCS Concordia (implicitly assuming the Concordia named the class / was named after its class as one of the first two ships of it like it's often - but not always - done).
 
To be honest, I think the best thing to do in this case is to leave this arguement as it is. We only have WC III and Star Soldier to go on, so we don't know what happened between the two with regards to the Behemoth class, so everything said is just speculation other than more than one was bulit, and the second must have been much later than the first. All we can do is hope that a later game or manual elaborates on this matter.

Oh and Prometheus, the Concordia class was a fleet carrier, not a light one
 
ChrisReid said:
What if the Nephilim start to field planet-size monstrosities? What if the Behemoths prove to be effective (and nimble?) weapon platforms in fluidic space? Maybe Behemoths laid waste to the massive shipyards that build (grow?) scores of Kraken squadrons. We can only speculate about the details.
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Don't forget that the Nephilim open jump gates by drawing raw energy out of the star - not sure what effect exactly a Behemoth would have against a star, but it might be enough to shut down a jump gate.
 
@Prometheus That's highly unluckily, the intent by the S*S author seems pretty clear. In addition, the Behemoth was the first of its class, so that class of ships is almost certainly going to have been named the Behemoth class.

I see your reasoning, but I just find the likelihood to be really low for such an event. After the Behemoth in WC3, it is highly doubtful that other classes or ships would carry that name.
 
Iceblade said:
@Prometheus That's highly unluckily, the intent by the S*S author seems pretty clear. In addition, the Behemoth was the first of its class, so that class of ships is almost certainly going to have been named the Behemoth class.
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The specific reference refers to the Behemoth cruiser hulk as a 'weapon of mass destruction'.

EDIT: There is also a reference to the Behemoth Super Gun as an entity in and of itself.

Iceblade said:
I see your reasoning, but I just find the likelihood to be really low for such an event. After the Behemoth in WC3, it is highly doubtful that other classes or ships would carry that name.
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Yet the S*S reference refers to the A-17 Broadsword Behemoth Bomber!
 
Iceblade said:
@Prometheus That's highly unluckily, the intent by the S*S author seems pretty clear. In addition, the Behemoth was the first of its class, so that class of ships is almost certainly going to have been named the Behemoth class.
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We don't have to guess about EA's intent behind Arena's Behemoth references. Here they are from the Star*Soldier gloss. The Behemoths of the 2680s and 2690s are ginormous superguns like the one we see in WC3.

"Hvar'kann and Behemoth-class dreadnaughts" - I did several things here: I officially named two classes of Wing Commander III ships (and gave a class to one!)... and I also confirmed (I hope) that more Behemoths were built to fight the Nephilim (or for other reasons; the Wing Commander Prophecy guide half-suggests that more are in service in 2681).

"TCS Gargantuan" - What a great name - just another word meaning something huge, like Behemoth. "weapon of mass destruction" - We throw this phrase around an awful lot these days and apply it to pretty much anything that mildly inconveniences us. Eight mile long space gun that blows up planets? That's an actual weapon of mass destruction.
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I can't find the thread now, but I think someone mentioned something about their hulks being a navigation issue. Can someone elaborate on this? Were they destroyed and that was to emphasize just how big they are?
 
frostytheplebe said:
I can't find the thread now, but I think someone mentioned something about their hulks being a navigation issue. Can someone elaborate on this? Were they destroyed and that was to emphasize just how big they are?
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It's a quote from Star*Soldier calling for volunteers, it's on page 57. Here's the quote:

"BOMBER PILOTS NEEDED. Hulk
of Behemoth-class TCS Gargantuan
is menace to navigation, galactic
threat. Help dispose of this
weapon of mass destruction."

The contact information indicates the hulk is somewhere in/near Gemini.
 
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