That McDowel interview...

[LeHah]

Theres huge holes in your line of defense.

We were told that, "hey, if you do some cool stuff it will become part of the official Star Wars canon."

Who told him this? Unless it was Lucas or the copyright group inside of Lucasfilm, it's nothing more than rumor or conjecture. This idea presented could be formed that since Joel McNeely scored Shadows Of The Empire it must be canon because its a real orchestra!

There're three levels to the Star Wars universe: canon, stuff that's really Star Wars but doesn't have the stamp of approval and then non-official. The stuff that we've done in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is in the first two categories.

Thats a really stupid statement. Theres either Canon or Non-Canon. It's not shades of gray but black and white. It's either canon or it's not and since theres been no major statement from Lucasfilm saying that Object X has canon material, it has to be deligated to Non-Canon.

hugely popular universe that's now become part of the Star Wars mythos

Mythos obviously denotes myth which is something based on passing down by word of mouth. I'm sure the fans accept it as mythos but that doesn't lend any support to it. I'm sure KotOR is a fantastic game and I look forward to playing it, but that doesn't help it's canon standing at all.

To judge from Muzyka's statement, though... the game is canon, or at least parts are (Dantooine seems to be) and most of the rest exists in the 'official but not movie' Star Wars universe. The thing with Exar Kun, however, exists only in the comics, and isn't referenced in the movies, just the rest of the Extended Universe novels and comics.

1.) Muzyka's statement has a number of holes in it as I've pointed out above.

2.) Dantooine and things involving it have been covered in EU and other SW media forms. While it may not be true, the continuity people at LucasFilm try to keep things together until Lucas proves them otherwise. Example: Nar Shadda is non-canon, but it looks the same from it's first appearance in Dark Empire to it's appearance in Jedi Knight.

3.) Things that contain canon but arent canon themselves are a weird animal. I'm not sure if such a thing exists where you can pick and choose facts from it and then deny everything else. That doesn't sound kosher.

4.) Exar Kun only supports what I stated in number three. He exists in the comics (Non-Canon), EU novels (Non-Canon), isn't referenced in anything Canon (Original Trilogy, Prequels, Radio Dramas) and is featured in a game with a highly skeptical placement in canon.

 

[Haesslich]

Theres huge holes in your line of defense.



Who told him this? Unless it was Lucas or the copyright group inside of Lucasfilm, it's nothing more than rumor or conjecture. This idea presented could be formed that since Joel McNeely scored Shadows Of The Empire it must be canon because its a real orchestra!

Considering that this material had to go through LucasArts at every step of the way, as indicated later in parts of the article you left out, this DID go through the 'copyright/canon' group at the Ranch. Thus, it would come from the copyright holders, seeing that they don't usually tell everyone who does officially sanctioned material that their stuff may become canon - this includes the Han Solo Trilogy, the Lando Calrissian trilogy, and most of the post-Ep III stuff that predates Ep 4 (many of the comics and novels).

Thats a really stupid statement. Theres either Canon or Non-Canon. It's not shades of gray but black and white. It's either canon or it's not and since theres been no major statement from Lucasfilm saying that Object X has canon material, it has to be deligated to Non-Canon.

'Non-canon' material that's accepted is apparently what the Extended Universe is - it's all referenced on the Star Wars official site, but is kept seperate from the movies themselves.

1.) Muzyka's statement has a number of holes in it as I've pointed out above.

2.) Dantooine and things involving it have been covered in EU and other SW media forms. While it may not be true, the continuity people at LucasFilm try to keep things together until Lucas proves them otherwise. Example: Nar Shadda is non-canon, but it looks the same from it's first appearance in Dark Empire to it's appearance in Jedi Knight.

3.) Things that contain canon but arent canon themselves are a weird animal. I'm not sure if such a thing exists where you can pick and choose facts from it and then deny everything else. That doesn't sound kosher.

4.) Exar Kun only supports what I stated in number three. He exists in the comics (Non-Canon), EU novels (Non-Canon), isn't referenced in anything Canon (Original Trilogy, Prequels, Radio Dramas) and is featured in a game with a highly skeptical placement in canon.

Until Lucas himself comes out of hiding to say 'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is Canon/Not-Canon', we're never going to solve this issue. However, this is where the 'canon' statement came from, especially given that they were working closely with LucasArts at each and every stage of the design and implementation process due to the way Lucas is about his Star Wars trademark.

Granted, he didn't pay enough attention when Kevin J. Anderson started writing (Jedi Academy the series... ugh), but this project, at the very least, was offered to BioWare and monitored closely to ensure it didn't completely derail even the far-past history of the Star Wars universe.

Unlike some properties, anyways - like Enterprise.

 

[LeHah]

Considering that this material had to go through LucasArts at every step of the way, as indicated later in parts of the article you left out, this DID go through the 'copyright/canon' group at the Ranch. Thus, it would come from the copyright holders, seeing that they don't usually tell everyone who does officially sanctioned material that their stuff may become canon - this includes the Han Solo Trilogy, the Lando Calrissian trilogy, and most of the post-Ep III stuff that predates Ep 4 (many of the comics and novels).

You're confusing yourself. Having the rights to write a Star Wars novel and said novel being canon are two different beasts. In fact, aside from the movie novelizations, theres really not much else in printed form (aside from scripts) that are canon. (All of the novels you've listed are all non-canon)

Example: Marvel Comics had the right to print Star Wars comics - but none of it is canon and thus has no foothold in an arguement based on fact.

Until Lucas himself comes out of hiding to say 'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is Canon/Not-Canon', we're never going to solve this issue. However, this is where the 'canon' statement came from, especially given that they were working closely with LucasArts at each and every stage of the design and implementation process due to the way Lucas is about his Star Wars trademark.

I solved your canon issue - it's obviously not canon for a lack of evidence. No other Star Wars game is canon, no other medium aside from the three I've repeatedly mentioned is canon, the main villian has never been acknowledged outside of EU and your quote has no basis aside from one person's chest-beating.

Granted, he didn't pay enough attention when Kevin J. Anderson started writing (Jedi Academy the series... ugh), but this project, at the very least, was offered to BioWare and monitored closely to ensure it didn't completely derail even the far-past history of the Star Wars universe.

You just defeated your own defense by saying that something is more canon than the next. So you're playing favorites for continuity? It doesnt work that way - thats why all the novels, comics, games, etc are all NON CANON. It's easier than that because if some lawyer decided to say that "Some novels are canon, others aren't" you'd get a major timeline confliction down the line and a lot of pissed off fans.

The far-past history has been covered before KotOR. Dark Horse did a non-canon story called Tales Of The Jedi that takes place 4,000 years before ANH.

 

[Haesslich]

You just defeated your own defense by saying that something is more canon than the next. So you're playing favorites for continuity? It doesnt work that way - thats why all the novels, comics, games, etc are all NON CANON. It's easier than that because if some lawyer decided to say that "Some novels are canon, others aren't" you'd get a major timeline confliction down the line and a lot of pissed off fans.

The far-past history has been covered before KotOR. Dark Horse did a non-canon story called Tales Of The Jedi that takes place 4,000 years before ANH.

Tales of the Jedi is actually where Exar Kun and Naomi Starrider came into the EU, from what I recall. I'm merely stating that a) it's been noted as canon by a creator who's been in contact with the Copyright/Canon division, and b) that statement, as you've noted, is not going to be proven without a statement from Lucas on the matter.

Still, at least this stuff's been handled better than Star Trek. I'm not going to argue over something this worthless beyond a token 'point out something else' bit.

 

[LeHah]

You obviously didn't read anything I wrote previously. I will now yell it at the scream as I type:

IT'S NOT CANON

Your ignorance and my bullheadedness is clogging up this topic. Someone close this, please.

 

[Haesslich]

You obviously didn't read anything I wrote previously. I will now yell it at the scream as I type:

IT'S NOT CANON

Your ignorance and my bullheadedness is clogging up this topic. Someone close this, please.

I'm ready to throw up all over the keyboard due to a bout with some sort of GI bug. Consider it closed.