Take That, 1994 (October 5, 2007)

It doesn't matter what Roberts actually wrote - he was in charge of all these projects, so he always had a very large say. He certainly is responsible for the story in every game he worked on. The writers didn't work in a void, they would have had some fairly specific instructions about what the plot of the game is, and what the key characters are doing.
 
But the material as written was at the discretion of the Borst and DePalma - Roberts only approved the final result. That is - the writers finalized his (Roberts's) own idea. Roberts may have said what was to happen - but the details and execution (in terms of plot) are found with the screenwriters.
 
True, but kinda irrelevant - "only" approving the final result still means that the whole thing was in Roberts' hands. That's no criticism, of course (I may not think much of the identity overlay thing, but there's certainly much in WC3 that Roberts can be proud of), it's just a fact. He had the entire development cycle to ensure that the game turned out exactly the way he wanted, and so WC3 is entirely his responsibility.
 
The bit about Dune is pretty accurate, though.
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I disagree with this one pretty strongly. There's this huge "Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are out to get us" internet cult that really angers me. Anderson is an incredibly *fun* writer and together they write a pretty entertaining Dune pastiche (in the literary sense). None of their books take themselves too seriously (which can't be said of Frank Herbert's later stuff), and they make for fun reads. I like having a 'Dune' book once a year - it's not hurting anyone and it's entertaining me.

I was startled by Hobbes' defection, but in looking back I really like it - specifically because it *is* such a negative message (I also like the Academy episode that ends with "... there aint no such thing as a good Kilrathi" as the lesson). The idea that 'hey, our enemies really are *bad guys*' is something you just don't see very often these days - it's also completely fitting with the WW2-in-space setting.

I do "prefer" the idea that he left of his own accord and would have liked a holomessage to that extent... but I don't especially hate the story. It fits with Freedom Flight in a neat way and it isn't a *terrible* plot (compared to... anything else in WC, anyway) - it's only a big debate because it's not in the PC game that most everyone played first (contrary to popular belief, the community never "didn't know" about it - it was explained on the BBSes at the time and the original script was included on the Behind the Screens disc which shipped with pre-orders, the hint book and the Premiere Edition).
 
Just out of interest which versions of WC3 included Hobbes holovid message to Blair was it in any of the PC versions? I cant ever recall seeing it in either the DOS or Kilrathi Saga releases.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
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I was startled by Hobbes' defection, but in looking back I really like it - specifically because it *is* such a negative message (I also like the Academy episode that ends with "... there aint no such thing as a good Kilrathi" as the lesson).
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Not directly related but when those lines in WCATV are spoken, don't we get a shot of the good (so-to-say) Kilrathi? I didn't consider that a negative message but on the contrary understood it the way, that even though our hard war veteran thinks that there are no good Kilrathis, there are indeed some.
 
Mekt-Hakkikt said:
Not directly related but when those lines in WCATV are spoken, don't we get a shot of the good (so-to-say) Kilrathi?
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... who was originally intended to be Hobbes (and in the finished series remains as Gharal nar Hhallas, captain of the Ras Nik'hra).

So yeah, there's some irony there, though whether it was intended exactly like that I can't really tell.
 
Quarto said:
In any case, yeah, Hobbes being a traitor remains, IMO, one of the worst plot twists in the WC series. What I have trouble working out, though, is whether I dislike this plot twist because it's such a horrible plot twist... or because, like everybody else, I got to like Hobbes in WC2, and simply resent that he was a sleeper agent all along. I think it's mostly the latter - but then again, apart from the idea of Hobbes defecting, I'm also bothered a lot by the whole "identity overlay" concept. It's a cheap trick - rather than developing a traitorous character, giving him motivations and all that, you just take any character and say "oh, see, he's actually somebody else from this moment on".
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True, although I think Jazz being a traitor is the worst in the series, with Tolwyn and Hobbes trailing behind.

Jazz betraying the Confederation simply makes no real sense once you think about it. So his brother dies at Goddard... and then blames the crew of the TCS Tiger's Claw because they didn't get their in time. For all we know, silvar could of just popped in, smashed the place, and gotten out before Confed could raise any kind of meaningful defense. For all we know any defense on Tiger's Claw's part could of been simply futile against Silvar and her escorts. (IIRC Secret Missions implies that the Silvar at least had one escort.)

Anderson is an incredibly *fun* writer and together they write a pretty entertaining Dune pastiche (in the literary sense). None of their books take themselves too seriously (which can't be said of Frank Herbert's later stuff), and they make for fun reads. I like having a 'Dune' book once a year - it's not hurting anyone and it's entertaining me.
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I can't speak for the Dune books, but I didn't his Star Wars novels. The Sun Crusher was incredibly lame, the concept of the Hutt's being able to even build a bare-bones Death star alone makes me want to vomit.

There's also no excuse for Admiral Daala being so incompetant, but that might be a subject for another time.

The bit on Babylon 5 is eeerilly accurate.
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Regarding B5... eh, I loved the series now that i've finally seen it, but, really, the only B5 movies I liked was "In the Beginning" and "A Call to Arms," ItB being the stronger out of the two. (ACtA had absolutely terrible music... oh god, the pain.)

I'm not sure why he'd pick the main B5 series when "Thirdspace", "River of Souls", and "Legend of the Rangers" were much worse.
 
Please, there's no 'L' in Sivar. :p

And yes, Jazz was insane to come up with that justification for turning Mandarin, but since when did any Mandarin think logically? ;)
 
You know, you guys can argue about this alls you want but I have a different solution. Since the holovid was cut out of the original version of the game, I don't consider that explanation to be canon. Now I know, yadda yadda, "it's canon whether you like it or not" blah blah... in -my- head it's not canon at all.

And that makes me much happier than the "official" non-canonical explanation of the "personality overlay" because -my- way is up to interpretation. And my interpretation is that honorable Hobbes did not want his homeworld blown up. And so to -me- it remains actually a rather moving plot twist because I pretend all that holovid crap never happened.

See guys, if you just practiced a little more self-deception you'd be a lot better off.
 
I hate the whole overlay thing, but being in the novel happens to make it inarguable, so I have to just deal with it.
 
It's not just in the novel - it's also in the 3DO version, the PSX version, the hint book, the making of CD and the published script.
 
Before Hobbes defection, there is a scene where Blair, Hobbes, Eisen have a video conference with the Kilrathi Prince. After the conference you see that Hobbes is distracted. I see this as a hint that Hobbes overlay-character (which was favorable to humans) was disabled during this conference.
 
An invasion of their communication systems rather than a conference, I think. :) But yes, it's clear that Hobbes' hesitation in that scene was meant to point towards a change or 'awakening' in his personality.
 
Actually the moment Thrakhath says the words "Heart of the Tiger" during his message it's quite clear that the phrase has a... peculiar effect on Hobbes.

Not that it matters to me because as far as I'm concerned the personality overlay never happened. In my head Hobbes' peculiar mannerism after hearing that phrase was merely him thinking "Man that's a stupid nickname".
 
It struck me as a silly name too, until I started thinking about just why they would pick it. Obviously there would be no actual tigers on Kilrah, and they wouldn't know what one was, so I can picture the Kats wondering what the name of the mighty 'Tiger's Claw' actually meant - and how fitting they must have thought it that our greatest vessel was named after a predatory earth animal which is very similar to a Kilrathi.

The name probably refers to Blair being the heart of the carrier on which he earned his reputation, as well as having the heart of a true Kilrathi warrior, or at least the closest thing to a Kilrathi on earth.
 
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