Submarines: Did WC miss the "boat"?

Eh, don't suck up. I'm clearly being a jerk.

But this *is* one of those stupid circle-jerk repeat-o-facts that was never true - the product of an idiot culture that doesn't understand the point of criticism in the first place. The damn scene is specifically structured *not* to do this -- it's a scene taken from a submarine movie and then written/directed to avoid THIS EXACT PROBLEM. But somebody decided that the old "THERE'S NO SOUND IN SPACE" chestnut was just too adorably clever not to post to a message board and it's been repeated ad-nauseum ever since. Go watch the damn movie - it's Chris Roberts making the sonar scene *without* suggesting that there's sound in space, not the beloved opposite.
 
Speaking of the movie, is there any chance that the uncut version, or at least scenes from it will be made available any time soon? I can't wait to see it. :)
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I have to go on vacation now, ask me when I get back on Wednesday.
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Hope you survive ;)

To be honest, this thread makes me realize I need to rewatch the movie. I was half asleep and hadn't even played the games when I first saw it- kinda made for a weird introduction.
 
rtheriaque said:
Regardless, needing to hear the ping is as foolish as shushing somebody. How is a sound wave supposed to travel through space, bounce off the Tiger Claw, and generate a return? Even in a debate about a fictional universe, that's just sloppiness.
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How do people not see that they're just inventing problems to complain about? There is no sonar or sound wave involved here. The novel confirms it's radar based.

Now there are multiple instances in different Wing Commander games where sonic and sonar based systems are referenced. Those are definitely interesting, but nobody ever whines about those.
 
ChrisReid said:
Now there are multiple instances in different Wing Commander games where sonic and sonar based systems are referenced. Those are definitely interesting, but nobody ever whines about those.
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Don't temp them.

Don't know what the future will hold. Look at tech in the last century and look how far it has come.
My phone chirps when the battery is low... Don't know how many times people have said "your phone is ringing". If you don't know what the sound IS then you jump to conclusions. People like sub movies and it was familiar s they jumped to a conclusion.
There is no sound in space so your conclusion being drawn off of fact would reason that it's NOT a sonar ping but rather something else. The very logic of the arguement should in the end tell you the aregument is pointless.
 
There was this awesome TV commercial over here in 2007 about a little girl at the beginning of the last century trying to explain modern cell phones to people and getting locked up in the psychiatric ward.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
But somebody decided that the old "THERE'S NO SOUND IN SPACE" chestnut was just too adorably clever not to post to a message board and it's been repeated ad-nauseum ever since
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I wish I could blame Roger Ebert. His review of Wing Commander is incredibly terrible; he bases his dislike of the film around the then-recent passing of Stanley Kubrick and how "silence in space" during 2001 is more realistic, in opposition to everything in Wing Commander.

Yet he agrees with the use of sound effects during Star Wars space battles. Ya can't have it both ways, buddy.
 
I know I'm late to this party, but I'm going to talk now because nobody can stop me.
Bandit LOAF said:
Grrr, people - he doesn't shhh them because they're avoiding the Kilrathi.
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Even so, the relative vacuum of deep space does not necessarily prevent their shouting from being detectable by a passing ship seeking them out. Anyone who doesn't immediately know what I'm talking about is probably not thinking hard enough. The assertion that they're behaving incorrectly can't work from either approach.
 
I don't imagine the sound propagation would be really strong with the extremely low density of space, though yeah, a lot of sound being produced and some sensitive sound detectors would definitely be a make them detectable.
 
Iceblade said:
I don't imagine the sound propagation would be really strong with the extremely low density of space, though yeah, a lot of sound being produced and some sensitive sound detectors would definitely be a make them detectable.
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Again, sound doesn't have to travel through space for others to be able to detect it. At the very least the Kilrathi could notice that the floating chunck of rock that is the claw is vibrating unnaturally and take a closer look.

However, every time I've ever watched the scene I've never had a sense that they're worried about sound at all. Paladin is just pointing out that it's too soon to celebrate because there's still one more kilrathi ship hunting them. (which the sensor ping is indicating and that the noise is making hard to hear)
 
Iceblade said:
I don't imagine the sound propagation would be really strong with the extremely low density of space, though yeah, a lot of sound being produced and some sensitive sound detectors would definitely be a make them detectable.
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Actually, I was talking about zapping a target with laser or radar.
 
Deadman_ny said:
Don't temp them.

Don't know what the future will hold. Look at tech in the last century and look how far it has come.
My phone chirps when the battery is low... Don't know how many times people have said "your phone is ringing". If you don't know what the sound IS then you jump to conclusions. People like sub movies and it was familiar s they jumped to a conclusion.
There is no sound in space so your conclusion being drawn off of fact would reason that it's NOT a sonar ping but rather something else. The very logic of the arguement should in the end tell you the aregument is pointless.
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The difference is that your cell phone chirp was not intended to sound like a ring--any similarity is unfortunate and coincidental.

The "pings" in the movie, and Paladin "shushing" the others, is MEANT to evoke images from submarine movies. The moviemakers have come out and said that they were trying to capture the feeling of Das Boot and Run Silent, Run Deep. So even though folks are correct to point out that we don't know WHAT technology the sensors use, and that it's probably NOT SONAR, it is inevitable that people would bring SONAR and sound into the disucssion. It's the risk you face when you try to draw parallels to a submarine movie.

This doesn't mean its a bad idea...just that you shouldn't be surprised if people bring it up.

There was a classic Star Trek episode, "Balance of Terror", that also tried to evoke a parallel with submarine movies like Run Silent, Run Deep. It was fraught with logical inconsistencies, even within the Star Trek canon (never mind if we actually try applying real physics). But it's still one of my favorite episodes in the series...even though the submarine movie refernces bring these logical inconsistencies to a forefront, they make the episode more dramatic and a more enjoyable story. I think the scene in question in the WC movie is similar.
 
Is it possible, the realism of a sci-fi movie notwithstanding, that the "ping" sound would be generated by an onboard system so they'd know when an active scanner were being swept past the ship?
 
floundericiousMI said:
Is it possible, the realism of a sci-fi movie notwithstanding, that the "ping" sound would be generated by an onboard system so they'd know when an active scanner were being swept past the ship?
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That's pretty much exactly what the book says it is.
 
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