Star Trek, Fleet bashing...

[Iceyl86]

You ever notice, in the Star Trek Series (and I mean the original and next Generation) how when ships of the same class as the Enterprise, appear in an episode, they almost never survive?

Examples:

Original Series (Constitution class):

USS Constellation: Sacrificed to take out the "Planet Killer"

USS Antares: Destroyed Telekenetically by Charlie Evans

USS Excalibur: Destroyed by the M-5 computer

USS Exeter: Found Adrift, all crew dead from a virus.

USS Intrepid: Destroyer by a space Amoeba

USS Valiant: lost... though I never figured out how...

USS Yorktown: Disabled by an Alien probe

USS Enterprise herself: Sacrificed during the search for Spock

THe Next Generation and DS9

USS Yamoto (Sister ship): Vanished with all hands

USS Odessey: Destroyed by a Kamikazee attack from the Jemhadar

USS Galaxy: Destroyed during a run into Cardassian Space

USS Enterprise herself: Destroyed at least three times in the series, finally met her true fate in the movie Generations

Two other things I've noticed, the first is that there were a number of classes that didnt make an appearance, if anyone knows what they looked like, please let me know.

Freedom Class, Apollo Class, New Orleans Class, Istanbul-class, Challenger Class, Merced-class, Olympic-class, Niagara-class, Zodiac-class,

The 2nd, what is up with the USS Potempkin and USS Hood?

Those two ships always seem to appear together. In the original series, they were both constitution class starships that were part of the M-9 experiment, the the names were given to a pair of Excelsior class ships, both of which were in the Romulan blockade, both of which commander Riker served on, and finally both of which were famous ships at that point.

and finally, what kind of ship is it that Riker finally got command of?

What is the USS Titan?

He refused command of several ships... but he seemed to have a pention for older ships: USS Excalibur (Ambassador class), and a few Constellation class ships. But he also refused to leave the Enterprise...

It seems as though there are three possibilities in my mind as he wanted something comparable to the Enterprise...

either an Ambassador class, a Galaxy class, or a Soveriegn class.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

USS Antares: Destroyed Telekenetically by Charlie Evans

This one is never shown, and the dialogue identifies it as being some kind of survey/cargo ship. It's certainly not the same class as the Enterprise.

USS Valiant: lost... though I never figured out how...

This was the ship mentioned in 'A Taste of Armageddon'... but it was two generations older than the Enterprise, and almost certainly wasn't the same class.

USS Yorktown: Disabled by an Alien probe

This one just plain wasn't destroyed.

USS Yamoto (Sister ship): Vanished with all hands

I'm pretty sure it explded. It was a victim of the Iconian computer virus in 'Contagion'.

USS Galaxy: Destroyed during a run into Cardassian Space

No it wasn't -- while it was mentioned on Deep Space Nine, it wasn't destroyed... it's one of the starships thats en-route to help out at the end of Nemesis.

Two other things I've noticed, the first is that there were a number of classes that didnt make an appearance, if anyone knows what they looked like, please let me know.

Well, ask yourself: do you remember any of this actually being mentioned on Star Trek? They don't spent any time at all talking about ship class names -- they call the Enterprise-D Galaxy-class once or twice and they call the original Enterprise 'starship class' or somesuch. The rest is fans and licensees creating names for things.

Most of these are names made up for ships that are offscreen or for kitbashes -- people went through the giant debris field in 'Best of Both Worlds', for instance, and gave names to all the ships... which in reality were just mixed and matched sets of existing ship model parts.

and finally, what kind of ship is it that Riker finally got command of?

What is the USS Titan?

It's never seen on screen. The series of novels about the ship call it Luna-class (there was a contest to design what they look like recently -- you can probably google for the results).

 

[Iceyl86]

This one is never shown, and the dialogue identifies it as being some kind of survey/cargo ship. It's certainly not the same class as the Enterprise.



This was the ship mentioned in 'A Taste of Armageddon'... but it was two generations older than the Enterprise, and almost certainly wasn't the same class.



This one just plain wasn't destroyed.



I'm pretty sure it explded. It was a victim of the Iconian computer virus in 'Contagion'.



No it wasn't -- while it was mentioned on Deep Space Nine, it wasn't destroyed... it's one of the starships thats en-route to help out at the end of Nemesis.



Well, ask yourself: do you remember any of this actually being mentioned on Star Trek? They don't spent any time at all talking about ship class names -- they call the Enterprise-D Galaxy-class once or twice and they call the original Enterprise 'starship class' or somesuch. The rest is fans and licensees creating names for things.


It's never seen on screen. The series of novels about the ship call it Luna-class (there was a contest to design what they look like recently -- you can probably google for the results).

I checked the record on the ST website, it was destroyed.

The New Orleans class was mentioned a couple of times... the others were on the website

 

[LeHah]

It's never seen on screen. The series of novels about the ship call it Luna-class (there was a contest to design what they look like recently -- you can probably google for the results).

Yeah the ship basically looks like the Star Trek Nemesis answer to the Nebula-class.

How are those Captain Riker books anyway, LOAF? Riker was always my favorite character.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I checked the record on the ST website, it was destroyed.

No, it doesn't.

"In 2374, the U.S.S. Galaxy, named after its class, was damaged during an invasion of Cardassian space."

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/ships/article/123375.html

How are those Captain Riker books anyway, LOAF? Riker was always my favorite character.

They're not awful, but they aren't great either. They suffer from 'look what I can do without an FX budget!' syndrome, where the crew of the ship is full of weird weird aliens. That's kind of neat, but it's nothing like Star Trek-as-seen-on-TV.

 

[LeHah]

Any of the novels you could suggest then? I know I read "Boogeymen" and "Federation" (maybe one or two others) bu the only ones I remember are two by Peter David - Imzadi and Q Squared.

 

[Tigerhawk]

A few other things I've noticed: one NEVER wants to serve on a ship named Valiant. Those things are ALWAYS destroyed, up to and including the Defiant-class of that name. Then again, what do you expect when you put a crew full of cadets in charge of an overpowered gunship? They're going to think they're invincible...and they find out that they're not. Teenagers...even in the 24th century, they just never learn...

A friend of mine printed off a huge poster of all of these ships that you mentioned. Offhand, I only remember the New Orleans class, which looks like an Ambassador-class ship in hull with four Galaxy nacelles attached.

LOAF's right...in Nemesis, the Starfleet Task Force that's assigned to rendevous with Picard clearly has USS Galaxy in there.

One also does not want to serve on board a ship named Enterprise for more than seven or eight years, lest they lose the ship out from under them. I personally, though, think that Paramount does this because they eventually get bored with the design they've been using and have to come up with a new one. They just haven't made a movie beyond Nemesis...two more movies, and there'll be a new ship.

It's funny that the Titan was determined to a small type of ship with barely any type of self-defensive measure to speak of. I had the original impression that it was supposed to be a Promethius class, but either I was wrong or the decision was changed on it. That surprised me even more, considering that, with the exception of the Pegasus, Riker's never served on anything smaller than a ship of the line.

(Sorry for all the italics with the ship names...old Navy habit)

 

[Tigerhawk]

Any of the novels you could suggest then? I know I read "Boogeymen" and "Federation" (maybe one or two others) bu the only ones I remember are two by Peter David - Imzadi and Q Squared.

I highly recommend the entire New Frontiers series of books, all by Peter David. You just never quite know what's going to happen (which almost seems a rarity in Trek books anymore) and he's a humorously-twisted storyteller.

 

[powell99]

The New Frontier books are *okay* I've read far better books.


Read the Star Trek novelisations by James Blish. They're pretty good.

EDIT: Wasn't the Yorktown turned into the Enterprise A or something?

 

[Ghost]

This was the ship mentioned in 'A Taste of Armageddon'... but it was two generations older than the Enterprise, and almost certainly wasn't the same class.

The USS Valiant was also a Defiant class ship, destroyed by the Jemmhadar Battlecruiser.

 

[ChrisReid]

The USS Valiant was also a Defiant class ship, destroyed by the Jemmhadar Battlecruiser.

The point of the thread was to discuss ships of the same class as various Enterprises. So the Defiant class one is irrelevant here, because we're talking about someone mistaking the TOS one for a Constitution class ship.

 

[Iceyl86]

A few other things I've noticed: one NEVER wants to serve on a ship named Valiant. Those things are ALWAYS destroyed, up to and including the Defiant-class of that name. Then again, what do you expect when you put a crew full of cadets in charge of an overpowered gunship? They're going to think they're invincible...and they find out that they're not. Teenagers...even in the 24th century, they just never learn...

A friend of mine printed off a huge poster of all of these ships that you mentioned. Offhand, I only remember the New Orleans class, which looks like an Ambassador-class ship in hull with four Galaxy nacelles attached.

LOAF's right...in Nemesis, the Starfleet Task Force that's assigned to rendevous with Picard clearly has USS Galaxy in there.

One also does not want to serve on board a ship named Enterprise for more than seven or eight years, lest they lose the ship out from under them. I personally, though, think that Paramount does this because they eventually get bored with the design they've been using and have to come up with a new one. They just haven't made a movie beyond Nemesis...two more movies, and there'll be a new ship.

It's funny that the Titan was determined to a small type of ship with barely any type of self-defensive measure to speak of. I had the original impression that it was supposed to be a Promethius class, but either I was wrong or the decision was changed on it. That surprised me even more, considering that, with the exception of the Pegasus, Riker's never served on anything smaller than a ship of the line.

(Sorry for all the italics with the ship names...old Navy habit)

WHAT!? I dont think so... with the name "Titan" I highly doubt its a weak ship. I always thought it would be a Sovereign class ship, where are you getting ur info?


If I'm not too far mistaken, he turned down command of the USS Midel, and the USS Melbourne... the Melbourne was a type 2 Excelsior class, it looked like the Enterprise B... and thats nothing to scoff at. Excelsior class ships even in DS9 were making up a good portion of the fleet. You saw quite a few every time there was fleet action. He also turned down command of the USS Voyager!
Ya think about it, he probably could have had command of any ship he wanted when he accepted command of the Titan...

 

[Tigerhawk]

WHAT!? I dont think so... with the name "Titan" I highly doubt its a weak ship. I always thought it would be a Sovereign class ship, where are you getting ur info?


If I'm not too far mistaken, he turned down command of the USS Midel, and the USS Melbourne... the Melbourne was a type 2 Excelsior class, it looked like the Enterprise B... and thats nothing to scoff at. Excelsior class ships even in DS9 were making up a good portion of the fleet. You saw quite a few every time there was fleet action. He also turned down command of the USS Voyager!
Ya think about it, he probably could have had command of any ship he wanted when he accepted command of the Titan...

I'm getting my info from the first book of "Star Trek: Titan". It plainly says several times that Titan is more of an explorer than a warship. Near the end of the first book, she gets pretty well mauled by what looked to be not much more than a few shots fired from Reman and Romulan ships before being pulled out by Titan's Klingon cohorts. All in all, with these references, Titan is certainly no Sovereign-class ship.

Don't remember Riker refusing command of the Voyager, much less that command being offered. (Doesn't mean anything, though). He turned down command of the Drake , the Aries and the Melbourne (which was originally a Nebula-class ship before they decided to change history and make her an Excelsior).

 

[Iceyl86]

\.
Don't remember Riker refusing command of the Voyager, much less that command being offered. (Doesn't mean anything, though). He turned down command of the Drake , the Aries and the Melbourne (which was originally a Nebula-class ship before they decided to change history and make her an Excelsior).

You never actually hear it from Riker or nething. You wind up hearing it from Q when he first visits the Voyager.

 

[Tigerhawk]

And with an addendum, the Titan is a Luna-class starship, which are meant for long range exploration.

All Luna-class vessels are named after moons in the Sol system. (Amalthea, Callisto, Charon, Europa, Galatea, Ganymede, Io, Luna, Oberon, Rhea, Titan, and Triton).

Okay, I just found photos of Titan. She's larger than an Intrepid, but smaller than a Galaxy. I'm too lazy to sit here and save them, then link them, so here's the page link with the concept design:

http://www.simonsays.com/content/feature.cfm?sid=44&feature_id=4347

 

[Tigerhawk]

The New Frontier books are *okay* I've read far better books.


Read the Star Trek novelisations by James Blish. They're pretty good.

EDIT: Wasn't the Yorktown turned into the Enterprise A or something?

*shrugs* Different strokes for different folks. Guess I enjoy David's writing style too much...

Exactly right, yes.

 

[Iceyl86]

Ok then, Luna class vs. the Ambassador class?

 

[Ghost]

The point of the thread was to discuss ships of the same class as various Enterprises. So the Defiant class one is irrelevant here, because we're talking about someone mistaking the TOS one for a Constitution class ship.

My point is that in DS9, they also destroyed a ship of the same class as the ''starring'' one, just like they did in TOS and TNG
Hey, they also destroyed the Defiant too.

 

[Ghost]

Ok then, Luna class vs. the Ambassador class?

Aestetichaly it looks like an Akira one, ut yes it performs more like the Ambassador class
Is thata schematic something official?

 

[ChrisReid]

My point is that in DS9, they also destroyed a ship of the same class as the ''starring'' one, just like they did in TOS and TNG

Tigerhawk pointed that out near the beginning.