Spoony "reviews" Wing Commander

AngryWeirdo

Spaceman
Spoony's "review" (it's not a review, it's a gripe session) is not new or original. It is the SAME tired and over beaten stuff we could hear from any number of sources on the internet about the Wing Commander movie. It's not even halfway entertaining.
To reiterate a bit from Sighter. Again, the issue here is that you're all long time fans of the movie. To you, of course, it's not going to be new or original. To you, of course, it's stuff you've seen a million times before all over the internet.

The difference here is that the VAST majority of those that frequent Spoony's site, like myself, have never before heard of Wing Commander. We've never seen the misspellings and the hairless cats, so what's been said a million times to you guys is new to us. There are going to be entirely different approaches when working with something no one has seen and something everyone has seen. There's been comparisons in this thread of riffing on this to riffing on Star Wars: Phantom Menace. But, quite frankly, it falls apart because the viewership on each is nowhere near the same. The expectations on what the viewer already knows going into each is entirely different.

PS: How are all these people finding this random thread on the internet? I find it fascinating and kind of weird at the same time that people are registering on a forum just to respond to this thread.
Twitter. It's a terrible, terrible thing.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
I think my dipstick for reacting to Wing Commander movie reviews is the reaction to the "SONAR" scene. My feeling has always been that you have to be trying to find something (else) wrong if you insist everyone is being quiet so the Kilrathi don't hear them (Paladin tells them to shut up because he hears beeping and they don't).
To be completely honest, the first time I saw the movie I interpreted the Sonar scene as Paladin trying to get everyone to shut up because something bad was going on – not because of some fear that the Kilrathi could hear them. I’m not sure if that’s the sense in which it was filmed, especially considering the submarine theme. But there must be something very specific in that scene that causes a profound reaction to “sound in space” that isn’t caused by nearly every single space movie/game/tv series ever made which does exactly the same thing.

(That said, I'd love to have a discussion about why the movie went with submarine cliches instead of sticking to carrier stuff.)
I'd like to know more about that.

My impression is that “Das Boot in space” could work, but didn’t because Wing Commander was strongly focused on fighter combat. After all, on the games, the player controls a fighter pilot and every decisive battle is won by fighters. Maybe a “Midway in space” would be more effective. Maybe the movie lacked a dramatic center. I'm not sure.

What I didn't understand is were the broadside bit came from, because having a long line of lateral missile launchers seemed out of place on a space carrier submarine.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
The difference here is that the VAST majority of those that frequent Spoony's site, like myself, have never before heard of Wing Commander.
Well, it seems clear that the review was not aimed at the demographic of WC fans. Just like this thread was not aimed at the demographic of Spoony fans. If LOAF went on to rant on Spoony comment board, that would be him picking up a fight. Except he didn't do this at all, did he?

I understand the reaction against people defending the WC movie - or at least not liking the review.

What I don't understand is why the fans of a guy who makes a business out of ranting and criticizing others are so outraged someone is criticizing and ranting about him and his style of comedy.
 

AngryWeirdo

Spaceman
What I don't understand is why the fans of a guy who makes a business out of ranting and criticizing others are so outraged someone is criticizing and ranting about him and his style of comedy.
Because we're angry weirdos, why else? Though, personally speaking, it was the bit about those who enjoy Spoony's work in general being the scum of the internet, everything wrong with society, and whatnot.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Whoops, missed this:

What I didn't understand is were the broadside bit came from, because having a long line of lateral missile launchers seemed out of place on a space carrier submarine.
I think the idea is supposed to be that Paladin is a hero in the Horatio Hornblower sense and so the Tiger's Claw turns into an age of sale warship once he's giving the orders. (Hence his yellowed paper maps, nautical trinkets, etc.)

(I think the idea is that the missiles are there for ranged fights, like the Skipper at the end... it's supposed to be exciting that Paladin is going to use them in a unique way.)
 

AMDFreak

Spaceman
Cheez, this thread sure has gone south!



What award? An award for complaining? The internet complainer's association award? Big deal. Win an Oscar, and then I will be impressed. Does the trophy depict a guy sitting in front of a computer with his middle finger extended toward the screen? Please. Don't wave awards that are mediocre, at best, in my face and tell me that the award itself somehow gives me less of a right to disagree with someone.
It was the open web awards and if i'm not mistaken he was chosen by 2 million of his voting peers as Funniest person to follow. You can disagree all you want that is not at issue here. The issue at least for me is when you attack the man personally for his work. SO you didn't like what he had to offer is that a reason to insult him personally? no

in fact if you want to bellyache at everything that is wrong with the internet why don't you start there? People that rabidly attack the person and not the issue because they seem to think it helps them win arguments.
 

Tarquinn

Rear Admiral
I think I just quote Chris here, and then we can close this chapter.

In case my point got lost in the chatter, I'd like to reiterate that Spoony isn't trying to make accurate points here. :) In case some people happen to be under the impression that he's like a game reviewer or something, he doesn't hide the fact that he's not reviewing products. He makes a living off of exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion for entertainment purposes.
Edit: Or not...

VVVVV
 

Highball

Spaceman
AW, I understand the "if you haven't seen it, it's new to you" mentality, I really do. Again, I am not saying Spony's material is old TO US WINGNUTS, but that it is old PERIOD. You could read almost any professional review and find the same talking points repeated ad nauseam.

I am saying that this gripe session is pointless because it treads no new ground in reference to the movie, it blazes no new trails.

Sure, it's new to you because you have not seen it, but that doesn't make the complaints any less old or beaten.

I am not comparing Wing Commander to Star Wars in terms of content or viewership; there is no basid for comparison there. I am comparing them based on complaints; how many Star Wars rants would you have to hear before they all became the same?

Someone spitting out the same things several have already said. Info that has long since been out there to be consumed. How long before you said: "heard all this before"? I can understand hairless cats being new to someone who never heard of Wing Commander, but that falls under another generic complaint. Every sci fi fan has invaribly heard the following talking points ad nauseam:

1.) The movie was not exactly like the book/tv show/comic.

2.) Dogfighting as we know it on Earth is not possible in space.

3.) Lasers don't make sound or have a "max range."

4.) Sound doesn't travel in space.

5.) Explosions are not possible in space.

Hairless cats falls under #1. These generic sci fi complaints are old and beaten. Though, virtually every sci fi franchise has had these complaints leveled at them because 99% of sci fi uses these tropes as a matter of course.

As I have said, this is not about attacking Wing Commander. The generic complaints are old. Really, why rant while reading from the generic sci fi complaints playbook?
 

Highball

Spaceman
And as far as rewards, they are virtually meaningless. Popular internet rant personality Maddox has not won any awards, but has a huge following nonetheless. An internet award doesn't make someone important all of the sudden, and more qualified to talk crap than the next person. A master's degree, on the other hand? Ok, that's an accomplishment worth noting.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
It was the open web awards and if i'm not mistaken he was chosen by 2 million of his voting peers as Funniest person to follow.
Good God, stop beating your award (I mean... the dude you're obsessed with's award), you're definitely going to bruise it.... right now.

Heres the details: http://mashable.com/owa/

The site says: "we received over 440,000 nominations with over 70,000 nominees and over 780,000 final votes" (so, not two million, for starters). There are fifty categories in which one can win an award, including "Best Online Video Web Series"...

... which Spoony didn't win. The award you're going on about is for being the "Funniest Person to Follow" on Twiter.

Somebody want to do the math? 780,000 people who were interested in nominating 70,000 things divided by 50 categories? Even if we pretend that 'funniest Twitter' is anywhere near as prestigious as the various best website awards I'm betting the numbers will show that you don't need all that many interested people to take one category.

The issue at least for me is when you attack the man personally for his work...
Keep something in mind, young Padawan - we've been hearing complaints of all types about the Wing Commander movie for a decade now. Some of them are interesting, some of them are funny, some of them we agree with - but by and large they're thin, badly reasoned bits of writing. We as a community have little problem with someone saying theres something wrong with the movie but we do have a problem when people write bad criticism, pass it off as an intellectual spin and then people agree with it because they catch a reference to the material, not because its particularly informative or intelligent.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Darn, I thought I was the funniest person on Twitter. Me or @ShawneyJ.

Actually, I checked our archive to see if WCNews ever won an award. We did! The CIC was gaming news site of the month in a Polish magazine! https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/1650 I do remember that now, they sent us copies of the magazine that had a picture of the old even-more-orange CIC in it. I was excited at the time.

Oooh, and we were "website of the day" at some late-90s portal that no longer exists! https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/2028 They're certainly going to put that one on my gravestone.
 
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vindicator

Rear Admiral
I'm so glad I'm not responsible for long ranting angry internet threads anymore.

The broadside that the Tiger Claw launches, aren't those supposed to be nuclear missiles?
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The broadside that the Tiger Claw launches, aren't those supposed to be nuclear missiles?
The Confed handbook only mentions that theres torpedo tubes, and they're generally ship-to-ship (capital scale, I'd assume is inferred) but can be modified to ship-to-planet bombardment. No mention of the type of ordinance.
 

Flashpoint

Rear Admiral
[Commenting on the Super WC review]

Shoot me if I'm missing the point here, but from his initial comments about 'Wow a WC game I haven't played' and the obvious glee that went with that, he seemed to be a fan of the series.
I adore the WC universe, but found the general mirth pretty hilarious, especially 'LOADING'.
It seemed to me that he was just having a light hearted poke at a game that may well have wowed people 10 years ago, but now would gain a similar reaction to a 10 year old playing Gran Turismo 1 on the PSX today.

He seems to have a fair bit in common with Yahtzee(sp?) on zero punctuation, and has the same agenda: comedy is more important than accuracy. As he is also clearly a fan of the WC universe it makes me giggle even more. I mean we've all got to be decent enough to laugh at ourselves every now and then, haven't we?
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
As far as torpedo launchers on the side of the ship, I'm not sure it really matters where they are. They seem to be some kind of capship to capship missile. When Gerald mentions that they're too close to the other ship ( "Sir, the missile guidance systems won't activate at this range") Paladin says that it doesn't matter. The implication is that the side launcher aren't normally used for close combat.
 

Glabro

Spaceman
I don't think thats what a fan does.
What? You mean a fan accepts and likes anything in the franchise unconditionally, or at least doesn't "attack" any part of the franchise?

I think you need a different term, one I'm not going to speculate on what it is.

In any case, I think there's mainly two reactions to game movies like WC. Either you are hugely disappointed, or keep a positive attitude and defend the movie regardless of its faults. If as a fan of the WC series you totally objectively thought the movie was well done or adequate entertainment, then who am I to deny that.

So personally, I don't like the subtext here which is that if you don't like all of the franchise, then you can't be a fan (which Spoony obviously is). The ad hominem stuff doesn't really help either.

I'd wager that out of those posters that registered just to post once in this thread, some of them are regulars here who feel they must express their opinion on this matter without being alienated for it.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I'd wager that out of those posters that registered just to post once in this thread, some of them are regulars here who feel they must express their opinion on this matter without being alienated for it.
You would lose that wager, as we track IPs and would make fun of anyone that stupid.
 

Prometheus

Spaceman
What? You mean a fan accepts and likes anything in the franchise unconditionally, or at least doesn't "attack" any part of the franchise?

I think you need a different term, one I'm not going to speculate on what it is.

In any case, I think there's mainly two reactions to game movies like WC. Either you are hugely disappointed, or keep a positive attitude and defend the movie regardless of its faults. If as a fan of the WC series you totally objectively thought the movie was well done or adequate entertainment, then who am I to deny that.

So personally, I don't like the subtext here which is that if you don't like all of the franchise, then you can't be a fan (which Spoony obviously is). The ad hominem stuff doesn't really help either.
I agree with that. Usually, it's the fans themselves who are the best at poking fun at "their" franchise. Look at Star Trek, there are lots of parodies out there, but the best parodies are made by people obviously very familiar with the Star Trek universe and who are "die-hard" Star Trek fans themselves.

Also, fans of a franchise are propably more likely to "reject" a new iteration of the franchise. Again, think of the new Star Trek movie. A lot of people liked it, many of them people who weren't quite familiar with Star Trek beforehand. In fact, that was deliberate by the makers of the film, to create a Star Trek film a non-fan can enjoy. However, then there are also quite a few people who really dislike the film. Most of those are long-time Star Trek fans. (Most of the complaints they have would be of the "doesn't match the source material" type, although tackled from various levels/angles.)

I don't claim there are no Star-Trek-fans who liked the movie, or that there are no Non-ST-fans who thought the movie was bad. In fact I heard of both people like that. But I think you are getting the point I'm trying to get across.
 

Highball

Spaceman
or keep a positive attitude and defend the movie regardless of its faults.
Can't I be disappointed with the movie and be tired of hearing the same "doesn't match the source material close enough for my liking" and "sound/explosions in space" arguments at the same time? I keep saying this, and it keeps getting glossed over.

Dig it: Spoony picks and chooses what science fiction is "okay" with him.

Example: He complains about sound in space, yet does not complain about outer space dogfighting. If you're going to complain about one impossible trope, why not complain about them all? Answer: he is full of shit.

He complains that the movie is not close enough to the games for him, which is a useless, tired and worn out complaint. It is made about tons of movies, and is the easiest complaint in the book of complaints to make. It is STOCK. Boring! These facts have nothing to do with Wing Commander. They are stock complaints that anyone can use to describe anything, and are so oft-repeated that they are pointless to repeat YET AGAIN.
 
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