Ships for UE2?

I

Ijuin

Admiral
Somebody mentioned the possibility of Confed surplus WC3-era ships being used by the Border Worlds in UE2 (the idea being that Confed sold them off when they phased in the WCP ships). Here is my take on them:

Arrow: Would fit nicely between the Ferret as the lightest, fastest fighter, and the Scimitar as the heavily-armored medium fighter. The Arrow has armor slightly heavier than the Epee but lighter than the Ferret, with shields about as strong as the Scimitar, and has speed and agility about midway between the Ferret and the Scimitar (slightly below the Epee). Its 2 Laser/2 Ion guns are slightly more powerful than the Epee's 2 Light Tachyon guns, but weaker than its single Stormfire cannon. I would give it 2 DF/4 HS/2 FF missiles for a loadout. I would say that the Arrow is just slightly better than the Epee except for the Epee's ability to carry a torpedo.

Hellcat: Having about 1/3 more shields than the Scimitar but only half the armor, and being slightly faster and more agile, the Hellcat is a pretty close match. Its 2 Ion/2 Particle guns hit a little harder than the Scimitar's 2 Viper cannons, but this is balanced by the Viper's ability to damage capship components. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the Hellcat's performance is close enough to the UE Scimitar's to make them redundant with each other.

Thunderbolt: Slightly slower and less agile than the Scimitar,with about 50% more shields but only half the armor, the Thunderbolt has the advantages of carrying 3 light torpedoes in addition to its 3 IR/3FF missile loadout (this is the SOP version of the Thunderbolt). However, its 4 Ion/2 Tachyon forward guns plus its rear turret make it quite gun-heavy. In all, the Thunderbolt has slightly more punch and slightly less speed and agility than the Vaktoth. My opinion is that its guns are powerful enough to be unbalancing--maybe a downgraded version replacing the 2 Tachyon guns with Light Tachyon guns might be better.

Longbow: The UE ships database stated that the BW have acquired some surplus Longbows from Confed. The Longbow is significantly slower than the Avenger 1D from UE, and significantly less agile too (320/720 kps and 35/35/40 dps vs. 400/850 kps and 45/70/55 dps). It sports the same missile/torp loadout (8 FF/8 IR/4 Heavy Torp), has slightly more shields but less armor (500/300 vs.400/375), and its Particle turret is just a bit stronger than the Avenger's Ion turret. However, its gun loadout is inferior--not only do its 2 Ion/2 Particle guns pack a lesser punch, but its guns are incapable of damaging capship components as the Avengers Viper Cannons are. My personal opinion is that the Longbow is generally inferior, but increasing its agility to at least 45/45/45 dps might make it viable.

Excalibur: Can you say overpowered? If the Excalibur had 200 armor instead of its relatively thin 110, then it would still be better than the Panther and a close second behind the Vampire. 4 Tachyon/2 Ion guns would be unbalancing compared to the other UE ships. Changing the Tachyon guns to Light Tachyon guns in exchange for boosting the shields and armor about 20% would help towards bringing it in line with the other ships.

My personal choice for a UE2 ship lineup would be Ferret, Arrow, Scimitar, Banshee, Avenger, Raiper IV (I am hoping that the Rapier IV has Viper guns!).
 
Ok. I should begin by pointing out that UE2, like UE1, will not depict all the ship classes owned by the BW.

Arrow - before Eder made his superb Ferret model, Arrows were slated to appear in UE as Beaufort's fighters. I rather doubt that the Arrow will appear in UE2, though it's always possible. Either way, the BW definitely has them.

Hellcat - you can be pretty much certain that they won't appear in UE2. Does the BW have them, though? In my opinion, no. If Confed is still using Thunderbolts in 2681, chances are that Hellcats are still operating too - the logic being that the modern fighters we see on the Midway are clearly not around in sufficient quantities to completely replace the older craft. It is possible that the Border Worlds will buy some when Confed retires them, though, and that's probably going to happen pretty soon (it may even have happened around the same time as the Longbow, but we don't know).

Thunderbolt - they won't appear in UE2 (at least, not as BW fighters), and the BW probably doesn't have any. Confed still uses them in large numbers, so they wouldn't sell them off.

Longbow - I don't think they'll appear in UE2. We have... ah, other plans for a UE2 bomber. But yes, the BW has purchased some Longbows. I don't know in what quantities exactly - I'm pretty sure the Landreich would have also been eager to buy off as many as they could from Confed.

Excalibur - no way :). This is a fighter invented in 2669, and is still being used in a wide range of capacities in 2681. I very much doubt that Confed plans to sell any of these off within the next decade at least.

Vindicator - that's almost certain. It had originally been slated to appear in the sim in UE1, but it had to be replaced because there was problems with the model (so the Bearcat got in instead). Since a new model is half-way through production right now, I'd say it just might appear in UE2 ;).

Raptor - the Border Worlds has 'em, that's for certain. But they probably won't appear in UE2, because they'd end up filling in pretty much the same role as the Vindicator and the Gratha.

In case anybody was wondering about the designations I give the BW ships, BTW... basically, I've made the assumption that they don't use the original Confed designations because it would be too chaotic, and in some cases misleading (the Arrow, for example, is now a patrol fighter, but Confed lists it as a light fighter).
 
Heh, I thought I was the only one who likes Crossbows :p.

The problem is, Crossbows are pretty fancy ships. I mean, in some ways they're better than even the Shrike and Devastator. So, it's quite possible that Crossbows are still being used by Confed - assuming there are any Crossbows around at all.
 
They were new in SM 1, 3-5 years before WC3?
So maybe Confed didn´t sold them.
Better than Shrikes and Devs. why?
 
Yep, new in 2667, just two years before the Excalibur. They're faster and more manoeuvrable than the Shrikes and Devs. Plus, if you assume that they were equipped with the x10 armour and shield generators that appeared in 2669, then the Crossbow's shield/armour stats (from the game - the stats in the manual are somewhat worse) are also very good even in 2681:
Shields (Fore/Aft): 500/500 cm
Armour (Fore/Aft/Flanks): 400/400/350 cm
That would make it better shielded and armoured, in fact, than the Shrike. It shields would also be better than the Dev. Its armour is also identical to the Dev, except side armour which is 10 cm inferior on the Crossbow.
 
How can you mesoure them.....the Stats are different mesoured in Wc2 and in WCP.....
 
Quarto,about the Hellcat comment.They should still be operational,cause they are not old,but not as new as Thunderbolts.


Also,about the Bearcat....its even newer than the Excalibur,but the BW has it!
 
The stats in WC2 might be different, but how do you think the old WC2 ships got their UE stats? Some method of conversion was certainly used... (I mean, before upgrading the ships and all) I think that those stats Quarto gave for the Crossbow are the original WC2 Crossbow stats taken thru the same conversion steps they used for other WC2 ships that appear in UE like say, the Epee or Ferret.

(I think that's what they did... at least in Standoff, every ship uses the same multipliers for their stats so that they're still the same relative to each other... if that makes any sense)

As for the Bearcat, like Q said, it was just thrown in to cover the Vindicator's absence... that won't have to happen again, though :D

--Eder
PS: No Hellcats in UE2! No Hellcats in UE2!
 
1st of all, I think the Bearcat should be kept. The reason they have it and it's new is because of WC4, when they (presumably) captured a ship factory making them.

2nd, I think the BW would probably have Hellcats - just based on everything else I find it logical to assume they do. Whether or not they should be in UE2 is an entirely different matter. Personally, I'm indifferent.

3rd, just because the Vindicator probably will be there doesn't mean the Raptor shouldn't be. I'm very for bringing Raptors back. I think they tend to be popular, especially considering they weren't the "super ship" of thier game. I say we add the Vindicator and Raptor. If it becomes a problem deciding which one to use on a certain mission, we could use the ship select option for missions that could use either one. Also, something that the Vindicator could be used for that the Raptor and Gratha couldn't - atmospheric flight. I'm not sure if we can pull this off.. but if it's possible to do with whatever engine we end up with, I'm all for it.

I think there's nothing wrong with having lots and lots of different fighters in UE2. We probably couldn't make all of them player flyable, but we should get as many designs in as we can.
 
I too think that the Raptor would be one cool craft in UE2.

As for the Hellcats: There at least one another around that likes the Hellcat, TCSTigersClaw ;)

I think BW owns some of them (maybe the WC3 variant) in this time, but I think that the majority of them is still operated by confed.

Please do not throw any BW Excaliburs or Thunderbolts in. They are still very powerful craft, I don't think Confed would sell them.
 
Well, there's no reason why the Bearcat shouldn't appear in the sim again, or at least in a cutscene or something. I'm assuming that the Border Worlds has maybe fifty of them, possibly less - just the ones they stole in WC4 and didn't give back later. There's also the possiblity of Confed Bearcats appearing... if there are any Confed ships at all in UE2.

Keep in mind, however, that we are always going to be limited by the amount of time Eder has to make new models and textures for us. Thus, squeezing in as many old ships as we can is not a priority... choices have to be made, and I think that Raptor or Vindicator will be one choice to make.
 
It seems we've got the issue of fighters people want for UE2 covered, but what about capships? I loved that the Bengal-class carrier was used, and the model is beautiful. Then again, I thought the Bengal-class had a very cool, angular look in the first place. Personally, I'd like to see an Exeter or two, possibly a Gettysburg-class cruiser...and on the Kilrathi side, I always thought the Ralatha-class destroyers were badass-looking. Just my two cents.
 
A Gettysburg-class? That's one of the unicorns of the WC universe :p. I think you meant a Waterloo-class (which I don't think the BW have).
 
Yeah, it's Waterloo-class. The Gettysburg was the Waterloo-class cruiser portrayed in Special Ops 1.

As for UE2 fighters, the Raptor sounds like a good idea. It would have a bit more shields and speed than the Scimitar, and have 2 Ion/2 Mass Driver guns instead of the 2 Viper guns, and something like 4 DF/4 HS/2 IR missiles. Basically it would come out as slightly better than the Scimitar in some areas, but the Scim would be preferable for some missions such as when the anti-capship power of its Viper guns is needed.

The Vindicator would make a good light bomber, provided that it got a slight speed boost (from its current 400/950 kps to 450/1100 kps maybe). If its Tachyon cannons seem overpowered, then they can be downgraded to Light Tachyon cannons. Give it a missile loadout of 4 HS/4 IR/ 4 Lt Torp or something.

And I STILL wanna know what kind of weapons loadout the Rapier IV is going to have! My personal preference would be 2 Laser/2 Viper and 2 DF/4 HS/ 4 IR (with a possible 2 Lt. Torp replacing the 2 DF for bomber missions).
 
Originally posted by Needaham45
1st of all, I think the Bearcat should be kept. The reason they have it and it's new is because of WC4, when they (presumably) captured a ship factory making them.
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Click to expand...

And Confed let the Bworlders to just capture it and have it ,their own ?
Come on!
 
Originally posted by TCSTigersClaw
And Confed let the Bworlders to just capture it and have it ,their own ?
Come on!
Click to expand...
The beauty of the situation is that Confed wouldn't have been in a position to get them back. What would they do, threaten the Border Worlds? That wouldn't go down too well with public opinion. And considering that it's just a bunch of fighters (and the Princeton, but that's another issue), Confed would probably have made the Bearcats their "gift" to the Border Worlds, just to improve relations.
 
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