right of choice?

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No amount of 'It's a Choice, Not a Child' bumper stickers or pictures of dead babies will have one effect on the status quo, other than to distract everything from problems with they can actually affect.

Politically for the foreseeable future you're right, but such things can and do have a tremendous effect on the individual level, if they convince even one woman who was on the fence not to take the final step and go into the clinic.
Are you saying that in order to have interesting conversations, we need better idiots? Thats a new one.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Generic idiotic exchanges aren't exciting. They evoke a sense of apathy in those who have actually bothered to think about whatever it is. We see them all the time at work, at social gatherings, on the news, etc. It's not like this issue hasn't been discussed in the exact same manner billions of times in front of us for the past few decades. It's hard to muster a lot of effort for the same old garbage we take for granted as watercooler debate. It wouldn't be an election year without everyone talking about whatever buzz-word issue that will have no impact on anything but our sense of self-righteousness.

But when someone is so stupid that they're original in the sense that we haven't had to debate said topic to death yet, it's hard not to get excited and fire off all those neurons at once. For example, the SNBSG2k/Farenheit 9-11 threads that were so full of life were tearing to shreds fresh idiotic drivel.
There is more to being a father then bringing home a paycheck. At least I truely hope that your involvement with your children amounts to much more then bringing home money.
Lets boil it down to this. If you get a girl pregnant the right thing to do is to be a "man" and raise the child. If you don't want to stay with the mother then the gov makes you pay child support and rightly so since it costs alot of money to raise a child and it is made even harder on a single parent.
On the other hand the government does not tell the mother to be a "woman" and rise the child. Even if the father is willing to be a father.
We take the rights we have for granted. We're not ready to be parents so we simply do whats convienent at the time. Like most animals on this planet we love to fuck, unfortunatly we don't want to deal with what happens after. That's fine and good but our society is degrading. Not because of abortion, but because we have "easy" ways out. We love sex, so we partake in it, but not without truely understanding the consequences of can come of it.
If they wrote into law that if you were pregnant, both parties involved were made to stay togeather reguardless people would put alot more thought into it beforehand. I don't care about other peoples children, they can have all the abortions they want. Fewer people on the planet means less demand, less demand means cheaper toilet paper.
It's the lack of resposibility of man and woman that we have in our culture that worries me truely.

Time for ice cream. :D
I agree and disagree with you on that one, Frosty. Surges or 'revivals' in one kind of moral standard or another are common in history, and over a period of time people begin to move away from that, and then another surge or revival will occur. So, while it seems to degrade, it's really only part of a set pattern.

I think that society is largely cyclical, and I think that what's happening these days is a shortening of the cycle due to ease of communication.

I blame the internets. And Pat Robertson, cause even I think the guy's a holier-than-thou prick.
Feel free to not be a prick yourself, Sparrow1, by not bumping old threads without having something to contribute to them of more value than flaming another poster.

Lots of people think I'm a "holier than thou prick" anyways, so your butt-hurt attempt to troll my e-penis has failed. You're just one more member of an already large group.

tl:dr = Sticks and stones.
Wow, dude. You spout Christian ideals and Sunday School type answers. If you really have that many people against you, maybe the problem is you.

Anyway, I agree, fathers should have some say in the matter. Yes, the woman has to carry the child for 9 months. Yes, it's her body that gets stretched out beyond belief. Still, if the father wants to raise the child once it's born, it should be his right. No, I don't agree that if a man decides he doesn't want something to do with the child that he shouldn't have to pay for his mistake. I do think that if he is willing to raise the child, then he should be given the right to do such. That's my 2 cents worth, anyway.
That's a good question.

Don't dredge up awful threads like this just so you can have a slap-fight with internet lingo from 1998.
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