Questioning the Enterprise premise

Viper61

Spaceman
I was reminded of this by reading the Star trek Lawsuit Thread and to avoid hijacking that thread, I'll just start another one to discuss my topic.
I had this thought at the beginning of the Enterprise series (which I think, like DS9 - I never watched Voyager - has its moments). Why would you start out the series with the huge "temporal cold war" subplot? I mean, I thought it would be interesting enough that we were about to see Starfleet meeting all the cultures that we've seen in the previous series (which we did with the Andorians, I really like those stories), and not get the "alien of the week" stuff that we had on TNG (which doesn't make alot of sense, you would think we would have seen some of the new Enterprise aliens in TNG or TOS - but anyway back to it). I thought this "Everything is new again" or "Whole new world" kindof scenario would be a great storytelling outlet for Star Trek to take. So whay start out with this heavy time-travel stuff? Why mess with the ST universe timeline scifi geeks love so much? The only thing I can think of is that its an out for later in the series. Like say they want to do somethign cataclismic in the series if ratings slip, with the whole time travel subplot, things could get turned around so that the Enterprise never existed, or never did this, or never did that, etc etc. I just really didn't understand why they would abandoned all this rich story that they could have added to and would have been interesting to those new to the ST universe and really enjoyed by those of us who have followed it for years to pursue this overly complicated premise.
Anyway, just something I've been sitting on for 2 seasons. I'd like to hear some other peoples thoughts on it.

C-ya
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
Like I said in that lawsuit thread - B&B don't care about Star Trek. Why bother doing all those nice wonderful things you said when it's just simpler to write the same-old same-old crap as long as the money keeps pouring in?

Your ideas are wonderful. But they are lost amidst the B&B who care not about ST. Time Travel is an easy out, yes (and overused), so that's probalby why it was done. Remember, it's $$$. If Enterprise started losing money, it'll be brought to a very swift end. So this out would facilitate it.
 

Lynx

Spaceman
They could have made so much with Enterprise. But the storywriters couldn't go without the cool stuff from the 24 century.

I'm no Trekkie but I find it disturbing that Enterprise clearly violates the timeline of the other series. There was one Episode with Ferengi boarding the Enterprise. However in TNG it is clearly stated in one episode that they made first contact to the Ferengi-in the 24th century. So what the hell are they doing in Enterprise?

Another thing are the romulans having cloaking devices in Enterprise. Hundred years later, this will be something surprisingly new to Captain Kirk. But they couldn't go without the cool effect of a ship decloaking in front of the Enterprise.

And now they are going the throw the wonderful intro song overboard, the best thing in the whole series(at least iread it somewhere)

In my oppinion, Enterprise is the worst of all Star Trek series.
 

Dralthi5

Spaceman
No, Voyager was worse. At least Enterprise has a cool look and style to it.

I haven't watched Enterprise since season one ended, but there were a lot of things that bugged me, as a huge nerd, of course.

Phase pistols? What the hell are these? Didn't Captain Pike and crew have laser guns, and weren't phasers new for Kirk and his gang?

The Enterprise looks more like a TNG-era ship, than a pre-TOS ship. I mean, I was always expecting it to look a little like Kirk's Enterprise, maybe crossed with a space shuttle, if you get my meaning?

Then there are the Ferengi. Sure, Archer and crew could have met them "unofficially," but wouldn't you think they'd make a report about them and Starfleet would look into them over the course of the next two hundred years? The Borg, after reading LOAF's expanation, I can deal with. In fact, that sounds like a cool idea, showing the repercussions of the time travel stuff in First Contact.

I mean, seriously, these are nerdy nit-picking things. But, IMO, the show's just boring, and that's why I stopped watching it.

-Wes.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
yeah, it does seem to me that the writers just can't do without the 24th century tech. The cloak is something I never thought of, but the Ferengi thing did throw me. My thoughts on the Laser/phase pistol thing, I don't think "The Cage" was something Star Trek people really liked to talk about too much (which really suprised me when they brought it back for "The Menagerie Parts I & II" - God this is sad I know the titles off the top of my head). The Star Trek pilot was just not in sync with the rest of the series, like the phaser thing, also the ship ran off of lithium crystals (as opposed to dilithum). Its like the writers thought to use materials/tech people knew about but later figured in a couple hundred years, tech would have evolved much farther and Star Trek just didn't seem "scifi enough".
Anyway, that was me saying the whole old scapegoat routine "If it doesn't fit, throw it out" (never a good idea) but I am more concerned with the writing in Enterprise. Has anyone come across any interview/random info/seance that would explain why they decided to make the overly scifi heavy "Temporal Cold War" storyline?

C-ya
 

Aries

Vice Admiral
personally, i think that enterprise is bullshit. it's just a vain attempt to keep star trek alive. i stopped watching after a couple episodes. adn to add a couple more to the nit-picking list; the vulcan chick as first officer-is she in starfleet, cause if she is, it would be a hundred years before spock, the FIRST vulcan in starfleet, and the klingon battlecruiser in one of the episodes-it was a re-use from the movie style battle cruisers. i find it funny that the klingons are using those ships a hundred years before they were introduced into the klingon fleet
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Those things can be explained to a certain point, but the whole Borg thing screwed it up big time. That would certainly be something Picard would know about-and all other humans. YOu don't forget something like that.
 

Dralthi5

Spaceman
T'Pol isn't in Starfleet. Thus, no Starfleet uniform, just that form fitting number that shows off her gargantuan rack.
 

Lynx

Spaceman
Is it just me, or does the female scientist in Freelancer (I believe her name is Dr Kendra Sinclair) does look very much like her?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
UPN commissioned Enterprise with the intent of drawing in a new audience to the Star Trek franchise -- that's why it didn't have 'Star Trek' in the name and that's why we got that awful song. There's *no doubt* that episodes were written under that same directive: sell the show to people first, worry about whether or not you're using the right design of Klingon ship thirty-second.

Trying to develop a show to please the 'fan community' is a bad idea. First, they're the people who are going to watch anyway -- their rating point will let Paramount sell ad space no matter whether they're enjoying the show or waiting to complain on the internet. Second, you will never, ever please the fan community. You're going to have the group that bitch that Enterprise doesn't fit in with the old Star Trek role playing game, you'll have the group that bitches that Enterprise doesn't fit with the old Spaceflight Timeline, you'll have the group that thinks Enterprise should look more primitive than TOS, etc., etc. And you'll have other groups who complain simply for the sake of complaining -- because you always do. People complain about whatever the most recent product is, no matter its quality -- it becomes hard to take them seriously.

Now, yes, the fanboy in me sincerely wishes that they'd only let people intimitely familiar with 500-plus hours of earlier Star Treks write/produce/design/act in Enterprise... but the reasonable half of my brain knows that that can not and will not happen. So yes, little angry lightning bolts went off in my head when the Romulan ship decloaked in Minefield... but I have to be reasonable and know that's not the end of the universe. And lets face it -- a *lot* of the whining is done simply for the sake of saying something.

I mean, take complaining about the Ferengi in 'Aquisition'. That's a really easy, fan jerk reaction that pops up whenever anyone is complaining about Enterprise. But to make that complaint, you have to stick your fingers in your hears and ignore a bunch of things. Consider: Encounter at Farpoint talks about the Ferengi as being a familiar species... it's not until later in the first season when they decide to show them for the first time that they decide that it's their first encounter. You have to consciously choose to believe one TNG episode over another, just for the sake of bitching about Enterprise.

Then you have to ignore that the Enterprise episode itself doesn't introduce the Ferengi in any way that contradicts with either of their TNG backgrounds. Three Ferengi try to steal the Enterprise, Archer and company stop them and they run away saying they'll never be back. The Enterprise crew finds out absolutely nothing about them (and, in fact, spends most of the episode unconscious). But we can overlook that because it's fun to complain, right?

Finally, you have to ignore that it is, in fact, the *THIRD* Star Trek episode to tell a story introducing the Ferengi earlier than expected! TNG reveals that Picard fought the Ferengi years earlier on the Stargazer, and DS9 sent its Ferengi regulars to Earth in the 1940s. Two out of three modern Star Trek shows have *already* done the 'we saw the Ferengi earlier, but we didn't know! *wink* *wink*' deal. But no one is still complaining about that two years later -- and I'd imagine very few people complained in the first place (I'm sure some did -- this is, after all, the internet).

Anyway, long point short, to complain about the Ferengi on Enterprise you have to be really, really trying to find something to complain about. And it's certainly not going to win your argument any respect in my book.

(Plus, in my mind you have to give Aquisition some credit, as it has one of the greatest scenes on Enterprise to date: Trip telling Archer "All you care about is your precious gold!".)

Now, I do have some complaints about Enterprise. It's an entertaining show, I'm glad to spend twenty-six Wednesday nights a year watching it... but it has missed some great opportunities. Take Unexpected -- the first season episode where Trip was 'pregnant' after an encounter with an alien chick. They played it for a joke, and the episode fell flat... but that could have been an awesome awesome awesome classic Trek style commentary on abortion. And that's the sort of thing Star Trek is famous and popular for -- not for properly organizing when Romulan ships can and can't cloak. (Their 'social commentary' AIDS episode this season also fell very flat -- *unless* they continue to follow T'Pols disease in the future, which would be pretty neat.)

I think Enterprise has a lot of strengths, too... especially the cast, which I think has a heck of a lot more chemistry than Voyager. I'd like to see them do more with it. I'm really looking forward to seeing what changes in the new season, since they seem to have finally given up the idea that they can attract a hip young audience with the show.

(I also can't help but wonder if Enterprise isn't for us anymore -- just like our parents grew up with TOS and love it dearly and can't necessarily see TNG or DS9 in the same light, we've bonded with our contemporary Star Trek already. My nine year old sister and her friends *love* Enterprise... and they treat it just like I did Next Generation at that age.)
 
no what Bandit LOAF he made some real good points but rember the original show did not try to be consistent. in the eps that the fringe are in they do not say who they are to the locols or where they come from
 

Ripper

Peace Through Superior Firepower
Did anyone notice the Klingon problem? In the original series, they looked almost human. In TNG, they did a "Trouble With Tribbles" episode, and Riker asked Worf what up with the way Klingons looked then as opposed to the way he looks. Worf said something like "We don't like to talk about it".

Then in Enterprise, they look like TNG Klingons. Go figure.
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
The problem with the "please everyone" approach is that Enterprise is going to try mightily hard from offending any demographic, and seems content to cruise on the traditionally course of political correctness Star Trek has been running for the last couple of years. I doubt we'll really see anything as controversial as the interracial kiss on TOS, or the lesbian on DS9 - even if they cloak it in context like those two were.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Ripper said:
Did anyone notice the Klingon problem? In the original series, they looked almost human. In TNG, they did a "Trouble With Tribbles" episode, and Riker asked Worf what up with the way Klingons looked then as opposed to the way he looks. Worf said something like "We don't like to talk about it".

Then in Enterprise, they look like TNG Klingons. Go figure.
Actually, that was a DS9 episode and I think it was either Odo or Chief O'Brien that asked him.

C-ya
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Ehh, the Klingon thing was screwed up long before Enterprise -- DS9 brought back several TOS Klingon characters (Kang and Koloth and the other one)... and they looked like movie-forward style Klingons (G)
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Bandit LOAF said:
UPN commissioned Enterprise with the intent of drawing in a new audience to the Star Trek franchise
Wow, you should do that with Star Wars, too.
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Those are some good points, but the Borg are never thought of or mentioned in TOS and Picard had no idea how to fight or what the Borg are. This was a major screw up by the writers. I am surprised no else has said anything about this.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
To my recollection, they never said "we are the Borg, resistance is Futile" (gotta go check my VCD's) so I don't think they knew "who" the Borg were. Plus, Kirk wouldn't know anything about them because Archer killed all the remaining Borg in the Alpha Quadrant (that is were Earth is right?). Picard may not have known about them because the information could have been classified and backlogged and lost after 200 years (either becasue, oh yeah its one encounter in 200 years that noone would think of or as yet a cataclism that erased all the data - we have no idea what that beam that tore up Florida hit, may have hit a starfleet archive - also who knows what happened with the war against the Romulans). Anyway, its late there are alot of sentence fragments above and if anyone can sort it out they are more than welcome to.

C-ya
 
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