Question about modular components.

Howard Day

Random art guy.
That said...My goal is to have Pioneer's gameplay match as closely as possible to Privateer. There are some plans to let the player go a bit more in-depth, if he wants to, but it should never be necessary to the completion of a mission, or to continue the storyline. Brad thinks that the scoop stuff would be funn to add in there - I'm honestly not sure if I agree that it's a good addition to the gameplay. The main reason for this, of course - is that I haven't actually played it yet. the "A" key is one of the more iconic wing commander traits, and I'll be damned if we screw with it.
I guess the best I can say is that if something we've mentioned isn't fun then it will not stay in the game. If the scoop system detracts from the game, then it'll be toned back or removed. We don't know that it will - yet. In the end, this is a Wing Commander fan game. If it doesn't play like the original, then what the hell are we doing?
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
One of my conclusions: "Never again to comment something I see as fitting, lest it will be changed". The WC canon is merciless just like its Protector(s) -- this is the way it just has to be!!! Whatever, do your best.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
I'm a big fan of selecting a nav point with the mouse and pressing 'A'. Those other games that don't have autopilot like Wing Commander are just weird.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Plasteel Skull: Well, look at it this way: This is a WC fan game. We're going to try and emulate the original Privateer. We have to make this game within that framework. It's fairly simple. Going completely contrary to what the original game did isn't going to work, and adding more unnecessary "stuff" to the basic gameplay isn't going to work for the majority of players. Now, adding little touches here and there that enhance the immersion for hardcore players isn't a bad thing - but making them part of the main gameplay....well, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Anyhow.
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
The autopilot is there. You DO NOT fly from point a to point b manually(unless YOU want to).

I must not (and in looking back didnt) state that. Once you leave the nav screen, and know all your information...you punch 'a' and bam-o you're there. If you actually changed your speed and all that jazz, then you arrive there faster....and with whatever fuel is left over from the operation. that's it. There is no fundamental change to the core framework already established in the previous games. You can either choose to go deeper or not.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
One of my conclusions: "Never again to comment something I see as fitting, lest it will be changed". The WC canon is merciless just like its Protector(s) -- this is the way it just has to be!!! Whatever, do your best.

Except this is the exact opposite of what you're trying to latch on to here. Electromagnetic ramscoops are a big part of the WC "canon" (ugh)... what myself and others in this thread are saying is that they don't necessarily seem like a reasonable gameplay element.

We're talking about how the game will play, not the specifics of continuity -- you can't write our thoughts off with such a limited description.

E pur si muove!

Stop being an unimaginable asshole.
 

Magnum

Rear Admiral
Bandit LOAF said:
what myself and others in this thread are saying is that they don't necessarily seem like a reasonable gameplay element.
Why not? You won't know that they aren't until you play it, just as Plasteel and I won't know they are until we play it. However, after 15 years, it wouldn't hurt to have some added depth for people that want it. WC was pretty complicated and deep as a sim back in the day, but I don't see why we can't improve on it, especially if the improvements are from a "canon" (Yeah, I know you hate that term) source. Think about it this way: Why do you enjoy WC? I enjoy WC because of the atmosphere, "WWII in space" aesthetic, and overall gameplay that was revolutionary for its time. Are you really telling me that not being able to "hit A" would completely ruin the "Wing Commander-ness" and that we have to keep doing the same thing ad-infinitum just because that's the way it was done 'x' years ago?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Did you read my post? I'm pretty sure I explained why it doesn't sound like a fun gameplay element.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
This is a bit frustrating. Truth be told, I wasn't too enthusiastic about this addition...but it does provide some depth to the gameplay...and it definately does not change the basic mechanics that Privateer used.
The autopilot appears to work exactly the same way that it did in Privateer. The only difference is that the game will now track the time it takes for you to get from one nav point to another. You don't actually experience this time. The little internal clock goes up a couple of hours. You get a pretty little flyby as your ship sails off into the abyss. That's it. You hit "A" after selecting a nav point.
Precisely how Privateer did it.
However - if you feel the need to get somewhere quicker - say there's a wounded pilot in your bay and he needs medical assistance - then you can fiddle about with the controls a bit more to get back to a base with most speed, at the expense of fuel. Nothing unreasonable about it, and 95% of the time you won't use the feature. It really won't affect how the game is played.
We need to track the time that goes by as you fly to these different nav points - because some elements in the game require a time cycle. Planetary rotation, seasons, physical nav-point locations, cargo "freshness", etc. You can manually fly to each nav point if you want...if you're friggin nuts...just like you could in the original Privateer. It'll take slightly longer than it did in Privateer, but you can still do it. The same amount of "Game Time" will pass. The only difference is that one method a button was pressed, and the time dropped off in a big lump - and the other, you watched each second tick by. I personally prefer the former (pretty sure most would) - but I can understand how some could enjoy the latter.
I hope this clears it up.
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
And i'm pretty sure I explained that you WILL HIT 'A'. So, stop bringing it up. You will hit a to travel. Period. If you don't want to (just like in the originals) you can do that too. Thanks to the scoops, you can do that slightly faster. But you WILL HIT 'A' to get the autopilot to get you there faster, just like in the original.

the sequence....again.

1. Hit 'n' to bring up the nav map

2. Click on the nav point you want to go to, a dialogue box comes up asking desired travel speed, for whatever you are flying at RIGHT then, click the 'okay' button. Whatever you do here, it will tell you how long it will take and how much fuel you'll have left when you arrive.

3. Exit the nav map.

4. Hit 'A' for the autopilot to take you there.

OR

See above steps 1 - 3 and do it yourself by killing your scoops.

Your choice.

EDIT: Howard beat me.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Good.

He can go tell Spiritplumber and HellcatV about how great it is that he's in the army over and over and over now.

There was absolutely no need for him to be a jackass -- it's pretty obvious that I was explaining why Plasteel was wrong about this having anything to do with "canon" and not that I needed his idoitic scoops crap explained to me as though I were a child.

That said, you people don't seem to understand what scoops are. They're not some secret way to go faster, they're just the novel's technobabble explanation for "what happens" when you're autopiloting.

They're also fairly unrelated to the going through jump points stuff he cited, too -- when a novel talks about how hard it is to go through a jump point with "scoops closed", it just means 'as fast as possible'. The 'safe' way to go through jump points is to stop first to make sure your approach is correct.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
If it matters, LOAF - I'm pretty sure Brad was talking to Magnum and not you. I agree with you - it doesn't sound fun - but neither do hardcore flight sims, and people buy and enjoy those all the time. I'm not adverse to putting a small element in to please that sort of hard-core gamer, but I definately think it shouldn't interfere or supercede the normal, established play. I hope we can clear this up.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
No, he was talking to me. Magnum liked the idea. Brad decided he should treat me like a two year old for some reason. He's gone -- permanently.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Magnum said:
Why not? You won't know that they aren't until you play it,

Read what he freakin wrote. "They don't necessarily seem like a reasonable gameplay element." You don't need to play something to think that it doesn't necessarily seem like a reasonable gameplay element.

Magnum said:
However, after 15 years, it wouldn't hurt to have some added depth for people that want it.

You need to put this in the proper perspective. Fan projects have enough trouble trying to get a single playable demo finished before they fade away. Adding extraneous complexity does in fact hurt the prospects for ever releasing the game.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Plasteel Skull said:
Yeah, I feel the same, when I play Counter Strike... ;)

Whoa, I read Strike Commander the first time. Anyway, all those flight sims and space combat games that have you fly from point A to point B using "time compression" or some other device are just not as good as the autopilot. It doesn't feel right.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Here's a question: Would there be ANY practical benefit to traveling faster when you are not chasing a target/being chased? I mean, would it matter in any of the missions (or in free trader/mercenary flight) whether you arrive after four sim hours or twelve? When will you need to hurry, outside of scripted missions where you have to "get there in time"?
 
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