Privateer Newbie 2

K

Kalor

Spaceman
Alright, thanks guys!

This game looks really fun... too bad the remake is awful. Its 3D flight engine may be far better, but the rest of the remake is just sad when it comes to immersion -- nothing compared to the original. If you're going to remake a space combat simulator, remake everything, not just the 3D flight engine... all those bleached out, 640x400 backgrounds and cutscenes (1:1 size, centered on an overall resolution of 1280x1024) look like vomit. And don't try to improve gameplay! Simply update the graphics! Geez!

Thanks,

Robert Aronson (Kalor)
 
Kalor said:
Alright, thanks guys!

This game looks really fun... too bad the remake is awful. Its 3D flight engine may be far better, but the rest of the remake is just sad when it comes to immersion -- nothing compared to the original. If you're going to remake a space combat simulator, remake everything, not just the 3D flight engine... all those bleached out, 640x400 backgrounds and cutscenes (1:1 size, centered on an overall resolution of 1280x1024) look like vomit. And don't try to improve gameplay! Simply update the graphics! Geez!
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Blashphemy!!! :mad: Besides, if you have a mac or a linux system then you can run the remake. If it wasn't for Dosbox, many people wouldn't be able to play the original, and the remake (which I think is really quite good) would be a lot of people's only option.

Consider yourself told off!
 
Uh-oh. Here goes the flame war again.

Can we leave it at this: Although not perfect, the remake is an admirable and enjoyable endeavour for many dedicated fans.
For a lot of others, it leaves many things open for consideration - bute there's a way out: Get the original, if necessary spend 20 bucks to get an old PC, and play it.

End of story.
 
cff said:
Personally I'd get a Mass Driver at the start. Then upgrade to Meson Blasters as soon as possible don't bother with better guns unless you are REALLY rich then.
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On the other hand, playing through the plot missions in a tachyon cannon armed Tarsus is amusing, if perhaps not the best investment of time.

(Though, I don't recall hearing anyone ever finish the game in a Tarsus. Every other ship, yes.)
 
Happy Camper said:
Blashphemy!!! :mad: Besides, if you have a mac or a linux system then you can run the remake. If it wasn't for Dosbox, many people wouldn't be able to play the original, and the remake (which I think is really quite good) would be a lot of people's only option.

Consider yourself told off!
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He makes valid points having recently played both the original and remake to make fresh comparisons from. "Some people might not be able to play the original if there weren't an easy way to play it!" is no reply. The poster just registered and is going through the joys of experiencing the wonderful originals. He wasn't looking to start a fight, so there's no reason for you to make a big deal about it. As CriticalMass explained, there are plenty of other options. DOSBox wasn't the first and it isn't the only program that gets Privateer running on modern computers. And a 486 can be had as cheaply as the game itself. Consider yourself told off.
 
DOSBox 0.63 runs Privateer almost perfectly -- there is only a lack of sound (plenty of MIDI music, though). Personally, I don't at all mind the lack of sound effects.

I suppose I'm biased in one sense: I've almost never preferred game remakes over the originals... I only prefer remakes if the quality is 100% retained and there have been no attempts -- even small ones -- to alter the original gameplay (even if such alterations are meant to "smooth out" gameplay, simplify overly complicated matters that could be easily solved by today's technology, etc.).

Actually, I suppose that means I've never liked remakes. Then again, I'm having a hard time coming up with remakes I've played... let's see...

- King's Quest I: The Quest for the Crown EGA
- Space Quest I: The Sarien Encounter VGA
- Quest for Glory I: So You Want to be a Hero? VGA
- Star Wars: X-Wing Collector's Edition CD-ROM
- Star Wars: TIE Fighter Collector's Edition CD-ROM
- Star Wars: Dark Forces (fan-made)
- Wing Commander: Privateer (fan-made)
- Super Mario Bros.
- Super Mario Bros. 2
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Then of course there are source ports, which are like remakes... but not really. In that category lies Quake, Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Heretic, and Hexen.
- I'm sure there are a few more I've forgotten.

I had more listed, but realized they were either minor in what they remade or were more ports to other systems than true audio and graphical overhauls. An example of a minor remake is Space Quest IV: The Time Rippers. Speech was later added... along with some "small," idiotic changes that made the game ridiculously difficult, if not impossible (I was never able to solve the remake).

Annoyingly, the Super Mario Bros. remakes are probably the best remakes I've ever played. They stay very true to the originals and, as far as I could tell, only updated audio and graphics.

Geez... X-Wing and TIE Fighter... talk about bad remakes -- and those were official! No excuse for that, LucasArts.

The worst is when originals are never included with the remakes upon purchase. If a game is "crap" enough by the standards of the day to warrant a remake (which is usually not wholly true to the original), the original should come with any remake made.

Thanks,

Robert Aronson (Kalor)

P.S. Very well. I consider myself told off... for merely expressing my opinion in a calm, reasonable manner.
 
Kalor said:
DOSBox 0.63 runs Privateer almost perfectly -- there is only a lack of sound (plenty of MIDI music, though). Personally, I don't at all mind the lack of sound effects.

- Space Quest I: The Sarien Encounter VGA

P.S. Very well. I consider myself told off... for merely expressing my opinion in a calm, reasonable manner.
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You shouldn't have a problem with sound. DOSBox defaults to IRQ7 where some of us might've been used to IRQ5. You might try irq 7/port 220/dma 1 and different sound blasters.

Yeah.. the Space Quest VGA remake seems to have a lot of character, but it's really off-putting to me for some reason. Aside from the massive gameplay change in going from text to mouse driven interface, weird things like making the Sarien warship a giant insect are just odd. I was saying in #Wingnut the other night that my family spent days figuring out the box in the laundry room was a trunk, not a box at all. Nobody who began playing games in the last ten or fifteen years will ever experience anything like that. You just click on it and go.
 
The Privateer Remake is the result of a bunch of Lunix assholes sitting around trying to figure out whose legacy they could rip off to get themselves industry jobs -- and every problem with the game is either because they were too dumb to realize that the original Privateer team knew how to balance a game properly or because they were too lazy to do something like actually make new higher resolution graphics for their grand project.

It's not for us.
 
I beg to differ... Vegastrike STARTED OFF as a Priv remake but then Hellcatv figured he'd do original work to get rid of potential IP shackles. The Priv remake project continued as a spinoff, then silly little me came along and said "let's expand privateer". I would still value your input about WCU (Except for drayman turrets. Got to have drayman turrets. You can get in them and shake your booty at people. Try it, it's fun.), seriously, though...
 
You beg to differ with what, exactly? In the case of your origin story, reality... but other than that, you didn't really disagree with anything anyone said -- you just blathered about your favorite subject (yourself) for no apparent reason.

Vega Strike started off as a generic Wing Commander fan project similar to what the recently posted generator might create (was it the one with the Firekkans, or was that the original UE concept?). It was one of the first ones ever announced, and like any fan project I'm sure there was the mix of admiration and desire to make an impression on the professionals behind the project.

Hellcat changed it to 'Vega Strike' instead of Wing Commander, claiming he was worried about legal issues -- if only he'd stuck to this idea when he stole Privateer to make himself famous.
 
Errr, guys, as much as I understand the emotional side of the discussion, not to speak of my own issues with the project: Let's keep the tone to somewhere in the vicinity of reasonable.
I've always enjoyed this board for its lack of 4-letter words, accusations and fair discussion, and would prefer it to stay that way.


EDIT: Moved from other post, because I posted too late for this to make it in this thread. But go ahead.
 
I don't see any four letter words here.

We're generally fair about such things; if you think the Privateer Remake *isn't* poorly done and an attempt to gain notoriety off of someone elses work then you're welcome to make your point.

If you're proud of the CZ, be proud of it for your ability to argue your point of view rather than a blanket censoring of peoples opinions in the hopes that they'll all get along.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't see any four letter words here...
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Well just now you used:

fair, such, *isn't*, done, gain, work, then, make, your, view, than, that...

Ok, but seriously...in response to this thread. Death, what or who were you quoting in your first post? I didn't see the original quote from anyone?

People on both sides are entitled to their opinions of the remake. Whether you like it or hate it, you have your reasons. You, will not, however convince someone of the opposing view by your argument. Why not? Because if they don't like it then telling them how neat the graphics are or how much you like it or how much it's like the original or even the "noble" purposes of the designer is going to change their opinion because they've already decided they do not like it. It's like a political rally...you'll have democrats with signs for their candidate standing right across the street from Republicans who have signs for their candidates and they'll both be shouting their candidates names. What do they think is going to happen? After like 2 hours both sides convince each other and they switch signs?

Loaf and others state their opinion on the remake as just their opinion. They are not unfairly (at least in my opinion) slanting the project but merely stating their thoughts on the game. Most of you that like the game have stated your thoughts as well. Please, please, please try to remember that opinions are not definitive "end all" declarations. If you like it, say so and leave it at that. It is not your responsibility to convert someone of the opposing view to like or appreciate the game.

Finally, as for my opinion on the remake. Well, I have tried playing several times. The first few times I absolutely could not get it to run on my AMD Duron 800mhz, 384MB computer. It ran like 1 frame a second even on the lowest settings. Later I installed it on my new pc and it ran like a dream. That being said...after about 10 minutes of playing I found myself extremely bored and somewhat disappointed by lackluster graphics. Almost any game engine out there right now delivers better (read: prettier) graphics. The combat was quite unwieldy in my opinion. That being said, I did like the keeping of the original base and cockpit sprites and various things like that. Unfortunately the game wasn't interesting enough to keep me involved long enough to even try out the various differences between the remake and the original.
 
Kalor said:
P.S. Very well. I consider myself told off... for merely expressing my opinion in a calm, reasonable manner.
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I'm sorry :( . I was a bit harsh there. I just enjoy the remake and think that some (but not all) of the improvements were improving the game play rather than ruining it.
 
Happy Camper said:
I'm sorry :( . I was a bit harsh there. I just enjoy the remake and think that some (but not all) of the improvements were improving the game play rather than ruining it.
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Nah, I understand. In fact, I've given the remake another chance. I'm actually enjoying it. I disliked it very much at first because it just sort of drops you into the universe with no tutorial, no guide, no story, no nothing, and just sort of expects you to know what you're doing.

So, doing what no gamer should ever have to do (and I'm serious about that statement), I opened the manuel and did a little reading. That's right -- I believe games should be designed in such a way that a button reference sheet should be all you need to get started (if even that), and the game itself teaches you the rest through cutscenes and hands-on tutorials. Of course, such tutorials can be skipped if desired.

Not having to read a manual simply makes for a much smoother gameplay experience and allows you to become more relaxed and comfortable in a faster amount of time.

Hoping to one day be a game designer and filmmaker in the vein of Chris Roberts, I think about these sorts of things quite a bit. What inspired me in my belief regarding manuals is the fact that console gaming has begun to eclipse PC gaming big-time; PCs are, in the gaming industry, referred to as the "fifth console," because its audience is shrinking more and more with each passing day. Even PC Gamer had an article about this in their latest issue.

As much as I may hate the idea, consoles are the future of games, and the average console player doesn't want to waste time with manuals (one trait console gamers and I obviously have in common). I see HD-TVs and the generations proceeding them as bringing PC-like resolutions and visual clarity to console games, allowing for the increased complexity of gameplay. This fact -- combined with Microsoft's desire to turn consoles into fully-featured home entertainment systems connected to the internet -- means the door will likewise be opened to keyboards, mouses (yes, mouses -- not mice), and other like forms of complex, precision input devices to be used with console games.

But I digress. :eek:

Starting the remake (and the original, come to think of it) was a deeply jarring experience; a sort of "wha-huh?!" moment came over me. The intro movie was no help whatsoever. Buuuut, I was determined, so I opened the remake's PDF manuel and looked up what I hadn't figured out via trial-and-error.

Thanks,

Robert Aronson (Kalor)
http://www.progressivedementia.net
 
Bandit LOAF said:
The Privateer Remake is the result of a bunch of Lunix assholes sitting around trying to figure out whose legacy they could rip off to get themselves industry jobs -- and every problem with the game is either because they were too dumb to realize that the original Privateer team knew how to balance a game properly or because they were too lazy to do something like actually make new higher resolution graphics for their grand project.

It's not for us.
Click to expand...

Well, the latest version actually *do*have a few things in common with the original.
 
ChrisReid said:
You shouldn't have a problem with sound. DOSBox defaults to IRQ7 where some of us might've been used to IRQ5. You might try irq 7/port 220/dma 1 and different sound blasters.
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Sweetness! It worked! Now if I can just get past the fact that I get never get close to hitting a target in the ancient 3D engine...

Thanks,

Robert Aronson (Kalor)
 
Kalor said:
So, doing what no gamer should ever have to do (and I'm serious about that statement), I opened the manuel and did a little reading. That's right -- I believe games should be designed in such a way that a button reference sheet should be all you need to get started (if even that), and the game itself teaches you the rest through cutscenes and hands-on tutorials. Of course, such tutorials can be skipped if desired.
Click to expand...

This calls for a thread of its own. Maybe someone can move this out.

But to answer on your thoughts: I completely disagree, but this may be because we belong to two different generations of gamers. I like to treat games like life (which many games try to simulate - okay, edit that, I play simulations primarily) - and life as such doesn't come with a manual. But in life, you have access to a lot of material and resources that you can peruse before you enter into a certain situation. For example: You want to drive a car, you read the rules first - because road signs are not self-explanatory. You want to go to Paris, so you read up on how to get there and what to see - because you'll have a bad experience if you're trying to figure it out on the spot.
So I don't like games that just come with the CD, and a marketing blurb on the box. I want something that prepares me for the experience - and here I agree with you: This can be done very boringly (Press Q to strafe, E to jump,...), or it can be done like again in real life - you have some material which provides you with a certain amount of information and preparation.
To cut it short: Manuals can be half the fun of the game, before you even install it. And it needn't be just paper stuff (or PDFs, which I hate passionately, cheap save-the-print-cost-approach) - remember the great materials and feelies in Infocom games? Or the audiobook tape that came with Loom?



Kalor said:
PCs are, in the gaming industry, referred to as the "fifth console," because its audience is shrinking more and more with each passing day.
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Which calls for another thread.

Just very shortly: True, but maybe not true. The PCs in 5 years will look totally different from what we define as PC today. The industry predicts the computing power of PDA-like devices to go up to 5GHz in the next 5 years, with the performance of today's high-end gaming machine. Consoles will merge into home entertainment centers, and the availability of broadband wireless services will increase (UMTS is already there, other technology is in development) to a point where there will be no difference between watching TV, listening to radio and surfing the web. So wherever we go (and whatever of this comes true), trying to predict a trend using today's technological concepts has a high likelihood to fail.
 
consoles? uhm, how the heck do you play a rts or a fps (decently) without a mouse?

how the heck do you make a game mod on a console?

thanks, i'll stick to a real computer. Consoles are just excuses to get people to write emulators. :P
 
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