Political Structure of the Confederation

I agree with LOAF, everyone stop talking now.

I did some searching around on the Federation legal system, and all I could find was something about how theretically Starfleet could pull off a coup and the rest of the Federation couldn't do diddly-squat. But that wouldn't happen in our enlightened Confederation, right?

And speaking of division of power, what sort of economic disparity is there in the Confederation that we're aware of? I'd assume that following the shakeup following the WEC and the later Great Pandemics, Earth and the Inner Worlds would be on more or less equal footing ... but what about the outer colonies? Wouldn't they be much less well-off? After the war I'd expect some of them would be clamoring for independence, much like the African colonies did after WWII. Maybe the Border Worlds Secession and rumored Landreich War was part of a greater, pro-revolutionary spirit that swept through the Confederation in the 2670s?

I just find it hard to believe that humanity could be so devastated, and then seven years later everything's back the way it was.
 
I did some searching around on the Federation legal system, and all I could find was something about how theretically Starfleet could pull off a coup and the rest of the Federation couldn't do diddly-squat. But that wouldn't happen in our enlightened Confederation, right?
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It's probably best to ignore anything Star Trek fans say about Star Trek ever. :)

As for a coupe in the Confederation -- that was, afterall, one of the plots of False Colors...

And speaking of division of power, what sort of economic disparity is there in the Confederation that we're aware of? I'd assume that following the shakeup following the WEC and the later Great Pandemics, Earth and the Inner Worlds would be on more or less equal footing ... but what about the outer colonies? Wouldn't they be much less well-off? After the war I'd expect some of them would be clamoring for independence, much like the African colonies did after WWII. Maybe the Border Worlds Secession and rumored Landreich War was part of a greater, pro-revolutionary spirit that swept through the Confederation in the 2670s? I just find it hard to believe that humanity could be so devastated, and then seven years later everything's back the way it was.
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I think you're straining for the sake of fitting what little we know of future history in here -- the Confederation is 500 years removed from the WEC... I seriously doubt it would have a *major* effect on the state of Earth today (today being 2700 and not 2003).

I don't think everything's *fine* in 2681 -- I'm sure they'll be rebuilding well into the next century. I think, though, that we've already seen the political reshaping of the galaxy... and it *has* been massive. The Union of Border Worlds, all those green dots on your WCU Map, are the less well-off colonies that have formed their own government.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
It's probably best to ignore anything Star Trek fans say about Star Trek ever. :)

As for a coupe in the Confederation -- that was, afterall, one of the plots of False Colors...
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There was a two-door automobile? :confused: :D
 
Frosty said:
So you can play your little mind-bending game just like BattleDog did with his "Flowery language is equivalent to correctness" trip, but I'm not joining.
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I never said it made you right, just that it could help you win. If it made you right that would mean the world was flat until Columbus, even though the Vikings, the Cornish, the Welsh and every other sailer knew it was round all along!

dextorboot said:
Actually, that does make them right. It's a new word for a pre-existing idea. Just because it had a name before doesn't mean it can't change. If the public in general decides that they will call a certain thing a name, then that makes it right. There are many examples this. "Reverse psychology" doesn't really mean anything in real psychology and what we believe it means actually has another name (escapes me, someone is bound to know it), however it is correct to say it because that's what people mean by it, and it's accepted as such even though it is literally wrong. To put it another way, if the entire english speaking world decides to call a rose a "shitbomb" tomorrow, and it's used that way and the rose is forgotten, then it would be correct to call it a shitbomb, even though it is neither shit nor a bomb. Dig?
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Bollocks, because the rest of the world is still calling it a rose, its just the Americans that call it a shitbomb.
dextorboot said:
Yeah, that Battledog thing was wierd. But then, I nor anyone else agreed with that so...
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Can someone please explain whats wrong with what I said?

This was what I said, essentially:

If you use complicated and superflous language you can win an argument even without being right.

In a face to face argument I'd beat many of you because I use language so well.

-----------------------------------------

Thats it.
 
dextorboot said:
Theoretically, a two door automobile IS possible. We just haven't figured out a way to make it work yet. ;)
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In the 70's there was a two door, three wheeled car known as the Bond Bug, it was desighned by Tom Karren for Reliant and later became the Robin. It was initially very popular however the bottom fell out of the market when it was discovered that the car was prone to turn over in high crosswinds. This was fatal in may cases as the car was fibreglass and had no roll cage.
 
It is a sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad... sad, sad, sad, *SAD* day when I'd rather be having a conversation with *just* Bob McDob. :)
 
Ok fine. Everyone here agrees that someone can win an argument without being right?...... Ok good.

If that's not what you said then that's what it sounded like you said. All of our mistakes. Sorry.

No, the rest of the world would not be calling it a rose, it would be called whatever they call it in their language. Our shitbomb could be someone else's hibbidy bibbidy. This sort of thing is already present between languages right now. Nothing new here. When we call someone "stupid" in english, in spanish it doesn't quite translate to "stupid." It actually translates back as something that we already have a word for in english and it has a completely different meaning for us.
 
dextorboot said:
Ok fine. Everyone here agrees that someone can win an argument without being right?...... Ok good.

If that's not what you said then that's what it sounded like you said. All of our mistakes. Sorry.

No, the rest of the world would not be calling it a rose, it would be called whatever they call it in their language. Our shitbomb could be someone else's hibbidy bibbidy. This sort of thing is already present between languages right now. Nothing new here. When we call someone "stupid" in english, in spanish it doesn't quite translate to "stupid." It actually translates back as something that we already have a word for in english and it has a completely different meaning for us.
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Let me put it this way:

FUCKING STOP THIS DAMN RETARDED SEMANTICS ARGUMENT OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD.

This goes for you too, Frosty. ESPECIALLY Frosty.

And you know it's a bad day when I'M calling people idiots.
 
Although Bob could have phrased his empty threats better, he's generally expressing the same opinion as I already have -- and my threats are in no way empty. Please, please, please start a new thread to discuss semantics (preferrably in the OT zone).
 
Suck my dick.

Bob McDob said:
This goes for you too, Frosty. ESPECIALLY Frosty.

And you know it's a bad day when I'M calling people idiots.
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Hmmm let's see....
Frosty's last post in this thread: 3:58, 7/1/2003.
Bob's post: 20:11, 7/2/2003.
Time between Frost's post and Bob's post: Over 16 hours.
Number of posts between Frosty's and Bob's: 10.

I think it's fair to say that it was crystal clear that I was done with the thread, so you can go fuck yourself and die. I'd rather swab the deck than take bullshit from a nutswinging peon like you. Know your place.
 
Frosty said:
I think it's fair to say that it was crystal clear that I was done with the thread, so you can go fuck yourself and die. I'd rather swab the deck than take bullshit from a nutswinging peon like you. Know your place.
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You've waited three days between posts before, though.
 
dextorboot said:
If that's not what you said then that's what it sounded like you said. All of our mistakes. Sorry.
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Thats exactly what I said, you said that I said that being good at argueing makes you right, which it does not. Where did you learn English, because it seems like you're reading my posts in another language.


Back on topic:

What we have to consider is that Cofed is only as big as America, by Comparison, and its only as big as America is now, not the size it was a hundred years ago.

It's a fact that as technology advances the world we live in becomes smaller.

100 years ago it took weeks to cross the Atlantic, it took early explorers months. Now it takes just hours.
 
Ok wait. I think we're both a bit confused as to who said what and what they meant. If not, then I'm confused by your last post.

Initially, I said that you said "if you're good at arguing then you are right." Correct? All during this time I was also saying that you can win an argument even by being wrong. Then you said" no, that's not what I said"

Then I said, "oh, i thought that's what you said." and you "said no I said that you can win an argument even if you're not right"

Then I said "ok, my mistake then, that's what it seemed like you were saying." I also said that it seemed like others were understanding you the way that I did. In the post that you quoted, I wasn't trying to say that what I had just said above that was not what you meant. Those two sentences really don't go together at all. I was saying that if you did not mean that winning the argument makes you right then obviously I misunderstood. And sorry. Is any of that clear? Even reading it back to myself it's a little confusing.
 
BattleDog said:
What we have to consider is that Cofed is only as big as America, by Comparison, and its only as big as America is now, not the size it was a hundred years ago.

It's a fact that as technology advances the world we live in becomes smaller.

100 years ago it took weeks to cross the Atlantic, it took early explorers months. Now it takes just hours.
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I have no idea what you're talking about ...

Most of the centralized government, based on Earth, seems to deal mainly with long-term issues that affect the entire Confederation - you probably won't see the central government intervening in a mining dispute in Gemini unless it became long and protracted. A lot of regional power is probably vested in the individual governments out of sheer necessity, simply because of the lag time - it does not take "hours" to cross the entire Confederation; it takes days, and in some cases, weeks or even months. Armada's Voices of War lists Kilrah as being several years travel away from Earth. Furthermore, ships cannot fly wherever they want - they need to follow specific jump routes, which might result in some odd flights paths.

Consider this: orders from McAullife, relayed by courier, took 24 hours to reach the base from Earth, even though the system is only one quadrant away. Admitedly this was because the comm relays were down ...

No such breakdown is apparent in the case of Nephele, though, which lies two sectors away, in Vega. There, a typical communication from Earth took ten days to relay, and even at its fastest more than three. This might be because Nephelle is around the Border Worlds, and doesn't have the communication infrastructure ... but the Border Worlds are, still (well, were) part of the Confederation, and the lag time isn't going to make things any easier.

As for "flowery language", I've made a thread for it: http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?p=179658#post179658 . Now, please take it out of this thread.
 
What's all this have to do with the difference between a coupe and a sedan?

If y'all can't figure it out, just say so and I'll explain it. ;)
 
What I mean Bob is that Confed is not mind bogllingly big. Its not like trying to police the Old West, it'd be more like trying to police modern America.

Technology makes travel and comunication faster, which cuts the amount of time to get from a to be.

Its as though you are travelling a samller distance because it takes less time. Therefore the world is, in a sence, smaller.

Now apply this to Confed.

As to Comunications, I thought it was pretty clear theat the news was simply relayed slowly. It could go faster, just nobody bothered. Plus, in WCIII you get fairly instant news on a Carrier on the edge of Confed Space.
 
Bwah? Space isn't big? Even travelling at hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of kilometres per second, a solar system is gigantic...
 
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