Pilgrim Connection...

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
It seems that a lot of treachery surrounded the Claw during the early days of the Vega Campaign. Between Admiral Wilson and Captain Sansky, God only knows what sort of treason they were up to. Shipping two pilots to the ship seems an odd reason to drag a civilian scout out of the way to do it.

Especially since Taggart turned out to be a Commodore in Naval intellegence. Is there any connection between his assignment to the Tiger's Claw and the two Pilgrims on board? Like INTEL believed that something was amiss on the Claw and sent Paladin out to investigate, which was his real assignment and not just a milk run?
 
I always thought it was more along the lines of the Kilrathi having captured the NAVCOM AI and Tolwyn knew that only the Tiger's Claw could intercept the incoming Kilrathi fleet and that only Paladin could get the Tiger's Claw to the intercept point on time.

If Tolwyn suspected Pilgrim activity in the higher ranks of the ship I doubt he would have given the ship such an important mission as saving Earth by delaying the Kilrathi fleet for one hour.
 
Space Point!

It was something of a coincidence - Paladin was on his way to the Vega Sector to begin a covert operation of his own... Tolwyn had ordered him to infiltrate the Kilrathi on the frontier by posing as a merchantman.

Tolwyn seemed genuinely surprised about Sansky and Wilson.
 
Nomad Terror said:
I always thought it was more along the lines of the Kilrathi having captured the NAVCOM AI and Tolwyn knew that only the Tiger's Claw could intercept the incoming Kilrathi fleet and that only Paladin could get the Tiger's Claw to the intercept point on time.

If Tolwyn suspected Pilgrim activity in the higher ranks of the ship I doubt he would have given the ship such an important mission as saving Earth by delaying the Kilrathi fleet for one hour.
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Even if it was the only ship nearby??
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Space Point!

It was something of a coincidence - Paladin was on his way to the Vega Sector to begin a covert operation of his own... Tolwyn had ordered him to infiltrate the Kilrathi on the frontier by posing as a merchantman.

Tolwyn seemed genuinely surprised about Sansky and Wilson.
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Cpt. Sansky was a traitor?!

And what about admiral wilson?

I have read the movie novelization, but from the movie I understood that Sansky was not a mandarin, and there was nothing to suggest that admiral Wilson was a traitor either.

(Guess I'm as surprised as Paladin regarding these two...;))
 
HammerHead said:
Cpt. Sansky was a traitor?!

And what about admiral wilson?

I have read the movie novelization, but from the movie I understood that Sansky was not a mandarin, and there was nothing to suggest that admiral Wilson was a traitor either.

(Guess I'm as surprised as Paladin regarding these two...;))
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Not Mandarins, Pilgrims. The movie as far as I'm concerned was incomplete. It would have been a lot better had they not deleted the scene which exposed Sansky and Wilson, though there is evidence throughout the movie.
 
HammerHead said:
Cpt. Sansky was a traitor?!

And what about admiral wilson?

I have read the movie novelization, but from the movie I understood that Sansky was not a mandarin, and there was nothing to suggest that admiral Wilson was a traitor either.

(Guess I'm as surprised as Paladin regarding these two...;))
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Yeah, they cut most of the traitor subplot because supposedly it confused test audiences. There's still some small bits left in the movie... a knife here, a cut hand there, a picture of Wilson and Sansky ever here.

Have a look: http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=22618&highlight=movie+script+differences
 
Cpt. Sansky was a traitor?!

And what about admiral wilson?

I have read the movie novelization, but from the movie I understood that Sansky was not a mandarin, and there was nothing to suggest that admiral Wilson was a traitor either.
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They were Pilgrim terrorists, not Mandarins - the Mandarin movement hadn't been revealed at this point (and may not have existed yet.) But yeah... everything you read in the movie novelization was something that was actually filmed and in the movie at some point... it was all edited out after it confused test audiences.
 
HammerHead said:
Thank for the referral.

I still can't quite grasp the notion of Sansky as a traitor.
(just like frostytheplebe, I guess)
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The movie as is doesn't explain his motivations at all. one of the cut scenes has Blair and Gerald confront sansky about this after they get back from killing Wilson on the Concomm. Sansky also apparently kills himself and only later do we find out he has also changed some of the command codes and such... It's why the claw can't launch a beacon and Blair has to fly through the jump point himself. The novel adds that he poisons himself and is why he dies after being confronted though I'm not sure if that would have been evident in the movie or if he was to have died from his injuries.

One thing you should look for in the theatrical cut of the movie is when the tiger claw first comes under attack. Sansky hesitates on the "raise shields" order, seemingly lost in thought. Look closely and you will see that he is holding a pilgrim cross. Also he's probably one of the only ones on board to be able to send his pilgrim code transmission to the concom with the authority to cover his own tracks.
 
AD said:
One thing you should look for in the theatrical cut of the movie is when the tiger claw first comes under attack. Sansky hesitates on the "raise shields" order, seemingly lost in thought. Look closely and you will see that he is holding a pilgrim cross. Also he's probably one of the only ones on board to be able to send his pilgrim code transmission to the concom with the authority to cover his own tracks.
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Are you sure it was a Pilgrims cross? I checked that scene when I first heard about this... and I saw what I thought was the butt of the Pilgrims Cross, then I looked at the one in my posession and replayed that part of the scene on slow, It looked more like he was holding Tolwyn's ring.
 
AD said:
... The novel adds that he poisons himself and is why he dies after being confronted though I'm not sure if that would have been evident in the movie or if he was to have died from his injuries....
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I don't have the movie (lent it once on DVD), but IIRC, He is injured in an attack by an explosion on the bridge an is seen dead from a wound he took to the head by the end of that scene.
However, his "face of death" does look a bit odd for some who died from a shrapnel wound to the head.
Been a long time since I saw the movie, but as I remember the scene, I does look a bit like it was edited from different (somewhat unrelated) scenes - probably edited the clip of Sanskey's body to the end of the attack to establish his death.
 
frostytheplebe said:
Are you sure it was a Pilgrims cross? I checked that scene when I first heard about this... and I saw what I thought was the butt of the Pilgrims Cross, then I looked at the one in my posession and replayed that part of the scene on slow, It looked more like he was holding Tolwyn's ring.
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It's definitely a pilgrim cross. Click here for the screenshot: http://www.crius.net/zone/attachment.php?attachmentid=1888&d=1156017219

HammerHead said:
I don't have the movie (lent it once on DVD), but IIRC, He is injured in an attack by an explosion on the bridge an is seen dead from a wound he took to the head by the end of that scene.
However, his "face of death" does look a bit odd for some who died from a shrapnel wound to the head.
Been a long time since I saw the movie, but as I remember the scene, I does look a bit like it was edited from different (somewhat unrelated) scenes - probably edited the clip of Sanskey's body to the end of the attack to establish his death.
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He was seriously injured on the bridge. I doubt the scene was edited much as it's pretty much the same in the script. I think it's gerald that calls for a medic. Basically he had a concussion more than anything I guess. He was knocked out enough for gerald to assume command. The scene of sansky alive later was shot but removed leaving us to just assume he died from his injuries.
 
AD said:
He was seriously injured on the bridge. I doubt the scene was edited much as it's pretty much the same in the script. I think it's gerald that calls for a medic. Basically he had a concussion more than anything I guess. He was knocked out enough for gerald to assume command. The scene of sansky alive later was shot but removed leaving us to just assume he died from his injuries.
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Or was just incapacitated period. From what was just in the final edit of the movie, I didn't get the impression that he died.
 
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