PCG Best games list

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AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Just got newest PC Gamer. THeres a 50 best games od all time list. :mad:

The only Wing Commander to make the list was WCIII at #48. In 2001 it was #19....

Atleast it's still on the list!

They actually have the nerve to call tie fighter the best space sim of all time and put it at #13. Unlike wing commander 3 it actually rose three spots!!!!! :confused:

Explain to me how possibly tomb raider, or max payne could be a better game than even wing commander I so2?!!!!!!!
 
Yep, got mine in the mail today too. Here's the complete list - I stole this from some other forum I just googled. The parentheses represent the top 50 from 2001:

50: Freedom Force (new)
49: Secret of Monkey Island (36)
48: Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger (19)
47: Worms Armageddon (45)
46: Homeworld (46)
45: Sam & Max Hit the Road (47)
44: Master of Orion (31)
43: High Heat MLB 2002 (43)
42: Panzer General (28)
41: Max Payne (new)
40: IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles (new)
39: System Shock 2 (23)
38: Beavis & Butthead in Virtual Stupidity (48)
37: Tomb Raider (26)
36: Rise of Nations (new)
35: Neverwinter Nights (new)
34: Total Annihilation (39)
33: Beast Within: Gabriel Knight Mystery (32)
32: Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar (21)
31: Mechwarrior 2 (8)
30: Unreal Tournament 2004 (new)
29: SimCity 2000 (25)
28: Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed (33)
27: Deus Ex (10)
26: Quake (17)
25: Heroes of Might & Magic III (29)
24: Everquest (20)
23: The Sims (11)
22: Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (9)
21: Star Wars: Jedi Knight - Dark Forces II (5)
20: Call of Duty (new)
19: Star Wars: KoToR (new)
18: Far Cry (new)
17: Command & Conquer: Red Alert (14)
16: Diablo II (7)
15: Duke Nukem 3D (12)
14: Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon (new)
13: Star Wars: Tie Fighter (16)
12: Grand Theft Auto III (new)
11: Baldur's Gate (13)
10: Fallout (4)
9: Battlefield 1942 (new)
8: X-Com: UFO Defense (3)
7: Starcraft (6)
6: Diablo (7)
5: Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness (5)
4: Half-Life 2 (new)
3: Civilization II (2)
2: Doom (15)
1: Half-Life (1)

So ya, I'm pretty sad to see the original WC didn't make the list, but pleased at least one of the games is there.

And I dunno AD, Tie Fighter was pretty damn good - I might argue that in terms of the actual flight simulation and combat, it might be better than WC III (please throw rotten fruit now). For most of the WC games, the story was the main focus, not necessarily the spaceflight. And while I always enjoyed flying the missions, occasionally I felt like I was just going through the motions so I could see the next piece of the story. By no means does that detract from WC's greatness, though.

Ugh...Battlefield 1942 at # 9? Please.
 
What gets me is that Wing Commander 3 is way higher than that, going by their own review scores. Only a couple games have ever outscored it (actually, Half Life 2 is the only one I can think of).
 
I don't understand this list.

TIE Fighter was not original - it sold well, but it was X-Wing with different graphics and a series of annoying tricks to make it play just like X-Wing instead of being what it promised ('oh, no more rebels to kill, another admiral defected and you have to fight more TIE fighters...')

It has a couple 'lip service' classic games (Ultima IV?), but it seems to choose 'popular' over groundbreaking. Red Alert was a fantastic game, but it was C&C with different colored units.
 
I can't believe the original wing commander is not in that list. They are supposed to be the best games of all time and during its time, WC1 was undoubtedly one of the best games out there. Well, at least WC3 is still in there.

I'm also a bit disappointed that Deus Ex only made #27. I would have thought it would be at least in the top 10. I have played some of the games at higher places and I don't agree that they are better.
 
That's just someone's incredibly biased list... there's more shooters in there than I can remember having played in my entire life.

(And I'm not saying I don't agree with some of those games deserving to be there... but when your "top 50 games of all time" list has 30 shooters, something's gotta be wrong)

Edit: It's also particularly interesting to notice that the density of shooters increases exponentially as you move towards the top of the list. :)
 
It's impossible to come up with any sort of unbiased list. If the list is based on the personal choices of the writer, it will be... err, well, it will be based on the personal choices of the writer. And if it is based on on some kind of reader vote-in thing (which is probably the case here), then it will always reflect the tastes of the present readers. This means that inevitably, older games will vanish from the list as soon the people who remember them stop voting. Notice that there are only two games on this list from 1990 or earlier. Were there no memorable games before that time? Personally I'd suggest that Elite deserves a place on this list just as much as Wing Commander III or Tie Fighter does... but how many people these days have even heard of Elite, Pirates!, Defender of the Crown, or indeed Space Invaders?
 
Quarto said:
Personally I'd suggest that Elite deserves a place on this list just as much as Wing Commander III or Tie Fighter does... but how many people these days have even heard of Elite, Pirates!, Defender of the Crown, or indeed Space Invaders?
Click to expand...

I challenge you to find anyone, gamer or not who hasn't heard of space invaders (must be under 50 years of age :P)
 
Over 50 I could name you some (and some of them actually played SI clones, but the'd never remember the name)...
 
ChrisReid said:
Anyone getting a scan of the portion with Wing Commander?
Click to expand...


I would If I had a scanner. For anyone who wants to give it a go, it's on page 50, with a sceen shot on page 51. However Pages 32, and 33 are a stupid comic that also mentions Wing Commander.
 
I liked PCGUK and PCGUS before gamespot... but they always loved to screw with WC. even though the games got good grades. These lists are more and more meaningless as time goes. I loved these lists in 1998, but today they're kinda stupid. I mean, what is the base of comparison between Civ2 and Far Cry?

I liked TIE-Fighter a lot though. I don't know if it's better than WC3, but it emphasyses (sp?) gameplay a lot more than the plot-directed WC3. There is a lot to do in each mission, primary, secondary and bonus objectives, lot's of "traffic" going around... the galaxy feels a lot more alive than the empty navpoints of some WC games, where all ships are either your carrier and escorts, escorted capships and enemies. you have to id, disable, chase, patrol, defend, strike...

Some missions are ridiculously hard, especially in the expansions (the one where you must destroy a intedictor in a TIE Advanced with a few other bombers is horrendous) and it is kinda annoying, as LOAF said, to keep chasing rogue admirals instead of killing rebels. But it is a great game, with a really varied gamplay.
 
I got that issue like a month and a half ago... I HATED THE LIST.

I'm scanning the stuff now, there was also a mention of WC in a comic in this issue.

Here it is, not too good a scan:

wc38nn.jpg
 
I think to have an unbiased list they should base it off sales as a proportion to the market share. In other words, don't say Halo 2 is the best game of all times because it had the highest sales ever, but as a proportion of the available market how well did the game sell. Granted sales doesn't make a game a classic but its a lot less biased then the aforementioned list.

That's another thing that ticks me about music albums, people say (insert modern artist here) is sooo much better than Elvis (for a biased example ;) ) or even the Beatles because they've sold more records etc but let's face it, the market for these artists is exponentially larger than the market from the 60s and 70s and the interest level as a percentage from that era was far greater than the modern interest level in whoever your modern artists may be. But I digress...
 
speaking of Elvis, He may be dead, but he still makes more money every year than alot of current bands.

From Forbes:
The numbers reflects estimated earnings between September 2002 and September 2003.

Rank Name Earnings ($mil)
1 Elvis Presley 40
2 Charles Schulz 32
3 J.R.R. Tolkien 22
4 John Lennon 19
5 George Harrison 16
6 Theodor "Dr. Seuss" Geisel 16
7 Dale Earnhardt 15
8 Tupac Shakur 12
9 Bob Marley 9
10 Marilyn Monroe 8
11 Frank Sinatra 7
12 Richard Rodgers 7
13 Oscar Hammerstein II 7
14 Jimi Hendrix 7
15 Cole Porter 6
16 Irving Berlin 6
17 Dr. Robert Atkins 6
18 James Dean 5
19 Jerry Garcia 5
 
ZFGokuSSJ1 said:
I'm scanning the stuff now, there was also a mention of WC in a comic in this issue.
Click to expand...

So is there no comic? In the future, people should just send us the higher-resolution images directly and we can size/compress them and post them locally. You also cut off the WC3 screenshot just to the right. We like taking source images because a lot of the time there's a big difference between gifs and jpegs in terms of quality. If there's no specific screenshots, a magscan gif will preserve the lines of text much better.
 
Sorry about the scan, I didn't know that you were going to update it onto the news site.... it'd be pretty useless to do another scan.
 
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