Once Again...

Was Tolwyn right to rescue the Tarawa

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 83.3%

  • No

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • Total voters
    30
Bob McDob

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
A few (years) ago, a poll asked whether Tolwyn was right to rescue the Tarawa in End Run. Now...the topic...

RETURNS!!!!!

(Dun Dun DUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!)

So why did he do it? What made Tolwyn (the same man, yet not the same man who would condemn trillions to their deaths in the name of the greater good) decide to risk the entire war effort in saving a single ship left for dead? And why the hell am I talking in rhetorical questions?

'"Damn you, Wayne," and his voice went cold, "you've forgotten what this war is being fought with. It's not ships, it's men and women, most of them not much more than kids, hanging their hides out on the line and getting precious little thanks. I was not going to leave those kids out there to die alone. They deserved better than that. We've got a hell of a long war yet to be fought; we can still lose it. When those kids sign on the dotted line tojoin the fleet, they've got to know we'll stand behind them no matter what. I tell you this, I'm never going to allow our people to become throwaway cannon fodder. I'd rather lose and go down fighting than to allow that. A country, a civilization worth fighting for, will risk everything to bring its warriors back."'

Quite a difference from the Tolwyn who...well, you know...

So?
 
He was abslutely right to save the Tarawa and his speech explains why.

However, do remember, Tolwyn did say "Yes... it is the men, isn't it?" when Blair mentioned that ships are only as good as the men who command it. To me, this implies that Tolwyn held that idea... he just went a little off the deep end!


HA!
 
I also agree he was right to save them. His point that a "nation" that wont do whatever it takes to bring its soldiers home isnt worth saving is a good point. Sure it has limits but this didnt pass them in my opinion.
 
I agree with all of you, it's (almost) always the right thing to do all you can to get soldiers back home who risked their life for their country/nation/planet/race (I'm sure you know what I mean :)).

And because of Tolwyn's behavior in SO1, SO2, End Run and Fleet Action it was very hard for me to see the change in his behavior during WC3 and WC4 and I really wished Chris Roberts to have chosen someone else to become the "bad guy" :(

Do you agree with me?
 
Originally posted by Col.Dom
He was abslutely right to save the Tarawa and his speech explains why.

However, do remember, Tolwyn did say "Yes... it is the men, isn't it?" when Blair mentioned that ships are only as good as the men who command it. To me, this implies that Tolwyn held that idea... he just went a little off the deep end!


HA!
Click to expand...

The calculated murder of billions is a little more than "going off the deep end." While I think Tolwyn did right in rescuing the Tarawa, the motivation for what he did in WC4 is the opposite of the motivation for what he did in ER. Rescuing the Tarawa was a statement that induvidual people, the men and women of the Tarawa, matter. They shouldn't just be written off for the progress of the war, or the greater good, or whatever. In contrast, in WC4, the Plan makes it clear that individual lives don't matter. If you aren't part of the Master Race, or if your plan will help the Plan, then you're expendable. That applied to Confed soldiers as well as civilians, as the attacks on the Orlando depot and the various convoys showed. In short, I agree with Bob, there's quite a differance between the two.

Best, Raptor
 
Because he cared about the military and "his people" -- look at the pains he went through to protect Jason and Kevin when he planned the project, sending them off to hide in the Landreich. He was *always* dedicated to protecting the people he cared about, crazy or not.
 
Since this is the only WC book I ever owned, I figure for once I'm actually qualified to post on one of these novel issues...

Saving the Tarawa was the correct choice to make. In addition, I also feel its in character for him. The Tolwyn that saved the Tarawa is the same Tolwyn that scribbled "Just get your people out of there." (or something to that effect - I don't remember the exact text) in the orders that Halcyon received to hold off the incoming Kilrathi fleet (said orders and signed scribbled note found on the back of the SM2 box).

That Tolwyn is a different Tolwyn from the one seen in WC4, or even WC3. The old Tolwyn probably wouldn't have given orders to Flash to stay out of combat, and probably would have shown a little more respect to Blair and company. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, he changed.
 
Gotta agree with $tormin. While it was a noble thing to do, the Tarawa was much more expendible than the Concordia. The fact that he suceeded made the issue somewhat moot, it's hard to argue with success.
 
Got to agree with most of you guys... Geoffrey Tolwyn before WC4 and in WC4 are really different guys.
It really saddens me to see how his character ended... taking his own life. Not even a chance of redemption.

A little bit off course, but anyone notice Jon Voight's Jim Phelps in the Mission Impossible motion picture. Of course aside the differences in physical characteristics, it was really hard for me to imagine that Phelps would turn into a bad guy. Sometimes I wondered... could it be possible that somehow during the transition between the TV series and the motion picture that Jim Phelps... director of the IMF was 'replaced' by a duplicate?

And the same about Geoffrey Tolwyn...?
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Because he cared about the military and "his people" -- look at the pains he went through to protect Jason and Kevin when he planned the project, sending them off to hide in the Landreich.
Click to expand...

I never read any of the novels. Who are Jason & Kevin? His sons or something...?
 
I think it was a bad move, and that he was wrong, he risked one of the confederation's few remaining dreadnoughts/heavy carriers, to go after a minor ship with a small crew, it was a strategically stupid move that could have ended VERY badly for the confederation
 
Originally posted by Col.Dom
I never read any of the novels. Who are Jason & Kevin? His sons or something...?
Click to expand...

Kevin Tolwyn is his Admiral Tolwyn's nephew.

Jason "Bear" Bondarevsky was a minor character in Special Operations 1 (the first WC2 add-on) He was a pilot who was part of the "mutiny" on the Gettysburg. He helped to bring the Gettysburg back to Confed, and was not only cleared of any wrongdoing (the court of inquiry found that the Gettysburg's Captain had issued an illegal order) he was decorated for his actions. Admiral Tolwyn sort of "adopted" him.

In End Run, Jason is the Wing Commander for the Tarawa and Kevin is a fresh from the academy pilot assigned to the Tarawa's fighter wing. Kevin is also a bit of a jerk. By the end of the End Run, Bear and the others have set Kevin straight, and the other times he appears in the other books, he is a good guy. Adm. Tolwyn in a way feels indebted to Bear for making a good man of his nephew.

Jason and Kevin are seen again in Fleet Action and False Colors, and Kevin shows up in the WCIII novelization. I thought I saw someone mention Bear was in the WCIV novel or script, but I don't recall that. However, since I'm not LOAF, that should come as no surprise.

I think Kevin is also the person Taggart mentions in the e-mail he sends to Blair about the intel being raw that we see in the Prophecy manual, but I'm not positive about that.
 
Well, if you never read the books, it would be easy to miss in the game. He only flew a few missions with you, and he wasn't all that helpful at the end of SO1. In the novels I thought they did a nice job of making him an interesing character. Quarto, who I haven't seen over here much lately, hates him.
 
Originally posted by Napoleon
I think it was a bad move, and that he was wrong, he risked one of the confederation's few remaining dreadnoughts/heavy carriers, to go after a minor ship with a small crew, it was a strategically stupid move that could have ended VERY badly for the confederation
Click to expand...

It could have, but...

It couldn't have been nearly as nasty as the battle they just finished with (I forget how many cat carriers were involved in the battle, and how many were pulled out to deal with the Tarawa's group - although this time Concordia wouldn't have had the rest of the Confed navy to back them up, of course). And since the mobile squadrons of the Kilrathi navy would have all been assigned to either the Confed trap or the end run (since both were VERY critical targets), the Concordia was pretty much guaranteed to find the Tarawa first before it found the Kilrathi fleet, meaning that the Kilrathi would be even further away (and thus out of range until the Concordia decided to close). Any ships that had been between the Concordia and the Tarawa would have probably have been isolated from the rest of the fleet, and looking the wrong way, which would make them an excellent target for an ambush. Plus, didn't they do something with their IFF to make it transmit as a Kilrathi ship? (been long enough that I don't recall)
Yes, something could have happened, but I think the odds were heavily stacked in the Concordia's favor in this one.
Provided, of course, that the Kilrathi hadn't already caught up with and killed the Tarawa task group (and if that jump point hadn't suddenly closed, they might very well have done so...).
 
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