In my short time in this forum, I've noticed one thing everyone agrees on; the Kilrathi war was a fighter based war, with ships launching waves of fighters to attack attack enemy ships. Carriers were key in this war and cruisers were used as light carriers/ strike and escort ships, destroyers were escort ships with the occasional assault duty, and frigates seemed more like recon ships. All of this being the reason for the lack of Endor-style battles, be that the case, then what is the purpose of the battleships (mentioned in the books) and dreadnoughts (Sivar, Concordia etc.)? Battleships are meant for ship to ship combat, as are dreadnoughts with the big gun that makes up the keel.
Not all pieces fit...
- Thread starter Iceyl86
- Start date
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Have you read Action Stations? One of its central themes is the transition from Battleship-centric warfare to Carrier-based fighter engagements. That being said, we see the fighter side because we play pilots in most Wing Commander games. There are thousands of capital ships on both sides that we never see. Many of them operate alone without fighter escort and play their own important role in the war. Even in the games, we still see a variety of capital ship engagements, and we see the big guns of Dreadnoughts being used against other battleships, planets and installations, so the purpose is pretty straightforward.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Fleet actions also happen alongside fighter engagements, in Fleet Action destroyers and frigates go along with the fighters to attack the hakagas. In AS, the Masada rams one of the kilrathi battlewagons.
Fleets seem more likely to close and engage along with fighters in WC than we think of today in modern naval warfare. In ER and FA the Tarawa is chased by cruisers and destroyers that also house fighters...
Fleets seem more likely to close and engage along with fighters in WC than we think of today in modern naval warfare. In ER and FA the Tarawa is chased by cruisers and destroyers that also house fighters...
NinjaLA
Alex Von T.
well fighters in the Wing Commander Universe are more like PT boats than fighters really, with heavy hitting payloads and fully capable of keeping time with a fleet of warships.
I have always figured that the reason WC is percieved as Carrier VS Carrier is because that is where the most action is, and thusly where the games are based.
A fleet of cruisers attacking a stronghold planet is exciting during the initial invasion but relatively boring during the months of rebuild, fortify, regroup and attack. Carriers are constantly on recon duty and are always in the thick of the action.
I have always figured that the reason WC is percieved as Carrier VS Carrier is because that is where the most action is, and thusly where the games are based.
A fleet of cruisers attacking a stronghold planet is exciting during the initial invasion but relatively boring during the months of rebuild, fortify, regroup and attack. Carriers are constantly on recon duty and are always in the thick of the action.
McGruff
Banned
I always thought the WC fighters were a lot like fighters.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258
QuailPilot
Spaceman
First I'm kind of a nut on the subject of WWII airplanes. Where did google dig up a gun cam movie of a p47 thunderbolt shooting at multiple aircraft?
Nomad Terror
Rear Admiral
People submit videos to Google Videos
QuailPilot
Spaceman
Battleships did had their own fighter squads. The Bismark (I think that is how it is spelled) for example had a catapult to launch fighters.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Eh, I don't really agree with that. Carrier versus carrier combat is incredibly limited compared to the giant number of cruisers and destroyers floating around out there. Fleets may be formed around the ten-twenty fleet carriers on each side... but at the same time there's thousands of destroyers and cruisers who are presumably fighting each other everywhere else.
We see the big exciting carrier battles... but most of the war is going to be each side trying to sneak their tin cans past eachother to wipe out installations on a massive scale.
Well, not really. Many (water navy) battleships carried a few catapult-launched seaplanes... but they weren't equivalent to fighters at all. They were used primarily for reconnaissance -- spotting targets for ships' large guns.
Stop being stupid on my internet. I mean, what is your problem? "Hey, some friendly new person is from another country, I should be a jerk to them." Your ice is so incredibly goddamn thin right now.
I guess it depends (in Wing Commander). Strictly speaking, the ships classified as battleships (ie, the TCS North Carolina in Action Stations) which are what is being discussed here are never seen to have any sort of fighter complement... rather, we hear about carriers existing specifically to accompany them to provide reconnnaissance fighters. In the 'Wing Commander I' sense, all ships of the line are 'battleships', and some of them (ie, Exeters, Waterloos, etc.) carry legitimate fighter complemenets. (And, further, the ships that seem to have replaced Battleships -- supercruisers and such, carry fighter complements as well.)
QuailPilot said:
A. Its DKM Bismarck
B. As Loaf said, She carried 4 Arado Ar 196 seaplanes for reconaisance, NOT combat. Put one of these against the P40 or the Spitfire and they'll fall faster than a Helldiver.
C. The only WW2 battleships capable of launching true fighters were the Japanese Ise and Hyuga and that was only after they were modified to. However they never got the chance because they were destroyed pretty quick.
D. Her "Large Guns" were 15" and there were 8 of them. 2 in two normal turrets a and b, and two in the superfiring x and y positions.
E. HAHAHA I love you LOAF! Stick it to that German hating B******
QuailPilot
Spaceman
Iceyl86 said:
The Bismarck attempted to launch her recon planes because the captian knew she was screwed, but the catapult was damged. It also was a complete failure.
it being the catapult.
I also knew all that information.
Mace
Vice Admiral
in WC, AFAIK a fighter has the ordnance to destroy one or two capships, both sides know this, that is why you have escorts, the mission-related fighter assignment in WC2 was a needed revolution, taking out a base or a starship in a ferret simply is ridiculous. also, in the final WC mission; "the tiger's claw is going to strike that base"
IMHO, it would take the claw's heavy weapons to overpower and destroy the kilrathi starbase, sure the player does it, but... ehmmmm...
in wc3, you could use an arrow and take down a carrier, but it would be damn hard, like the before adressed issue with taking on 50.000 fighters and winning the losing mission of WC3, i have tried it(years ago), anything in my mind tried to find a way to leave the battle.. after 20-30 minutes of fighting off cats, including ramming them. WC ships are flying tanks.
it's not like ocean's old(1990) epic, where you take down three fleets per mission, and sometimes switch guns because your ammo ran out.
IMHO, it would take the claw's heavy weapons to overpower and destroy the kilrathi starbase, sure the player does it, but... ehmmmm...
in wc3, you could use an arrow and take down a carrier, but it would be damn hard, like the before adressed issue with taking on 50.000 fighters and winning the losing mission of WC3, i have tried it(years ago), anything in my mind tried to find a way to leave the battle.. after 20-30 minutes of fighting off cats, including ramming them. WC ships are flying tanks.
it's not like ocean's old(1990) epic, where you take down three fleets per mission, and sometimes switch guns because your ammo ran out.