New Ship Statistics


Hello Saga team.

I've been able to play Saga a little more in the past few days, and I've noted that there are a few ships that y'all created specifically for Saga (for example, the Savannah-class light cruiser, the Prowler-class scout, the Dukara-class transport, etc.). I was thinking about adding versions of these craft to WCRPG (with the permission of the original designers, of course), and was curious if there was an official listing of their statistics anywhere (length, performance characteristics, defenses, armament, and flight/crew compliment specifically). I'd still have to compile a list of all the craft I'm interested in. I figured, though, that I'd start by asking if the stats existing and if I could add them.
The Dukara-class is from the games; it's the "triangle transport" from WC3 3DO, the CCG and a WC4 cutscene. It also appears in the early Wing Commander III screenshots, no one is sure why it was dropped from the finished game!
I may be able to help you a bit with that.
I calculated some of the things from the engine but I may be wrong. I'll check it again and see if I can find more.
I can give you at least the armament though.

As for the permission: I can't help you with that, sorry. I did neither of them. So I guess you have to wait for Tolwyn and/or Scooby.
EDIT: But as LOAF mentioned, the Dukara is from WC3

This is basically the Free Trader
- 1 Tachyon turret
- 2 Laser turrets
- 2 missile launchers
It also has a cloaking device, at least in the WCS timeframe, so that means shortly before the end of the war in 2669
Maybe the shields are also a bit better, I don't know.

There are no stats on the page or something, but I calculated some sizes out of the model.:
The ingame model is 130 meters long if I calculated it right.
- 2 Laser turrets
- 1 missile launcher
It has two third of the shield strength of a Sha'Kar-class transport and half its hitpoints in the engine.

The stats for the Savannah are available in German at Not sure if those are accurate or whether they were changed during the development, but here is what I have:


Class Light cruiser
Length 480 m
Mass 23 000 t
Max Y/P/R 10/10/10 dps
Acceleration 10 k/s2
Top speed 150 kps
Laser turret (8)
Antimatter-Turret (2)
multiple Torpedo launchers
(I think 4 forward facing)

Shields 2 000 cm
Armor 1 500 cm
Spacecraft Complement
Light fighters (5)
Shuttles (2)
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Can't edit again...
The Savannah stats are... well... old. Here are better ones:


500 meters
17,000 tons

180 kps
Armor: 1000
Shields: 2500

3 AMGs
6 Lasers
2 Missile turrets
Capship Missile/torpedo tubes
Fighters: 5
Shuttles: 2
Crew: ~300
The Savannah stats are... well... old. Here are better ones:

You wouldn't happen to have YPR data for the newer stats, would you?

It occurs to me that, with the system I've got for ship creation at the moment, I would still need to pixel hunt the various models of the craft I'd want to do in order to get their overall dimensions (and determine their respective size classes). I'd then have to locate the position of each weapon station on each craft and make a best guess as to their respective firing arcs. I'm going to ultimately need more than just the stats for these craft, it seems. I've got a fair amount of time before I would be working on them, though.

It'd probably be helpful to have the full list of the craft I'm looking for, so I went through the game tonight and the Saga site to compile a list. Here's what I've got:

  • SAR-13A Phoenix
  • CF-437A Spartan
  • Prowler
  • Pelileu Transport
  • Savannah CL
  • Jutland CV
  • Zartoth ECM/ECCM Fighter
  • Dukara Transport
  • Fra'lath CL
  • Dubav CVE
  • Naktarg Shuttle
I've got a couple for the Standoff folks, too...but that's a topic for another new thread...
The Zartoth has exactly the same values as the Vaktoth. The difference is only the ECM equipment (obviously) and its armament. It has only two forward-firing Ion cannons, no rear turret, and only two Fang missiles IIRC. But I'll check that again when I'm at home.
I found on Saga's forums where I could use a utility to extract the stats from the ships table, so a lot of my questions are getting slowly answered. I am going to have to figure out if they do include something hidden that would help me determine the ship's mass or size, or if I need to try something else - I have figured out a method for getting a reasonable estimate of a ship's size from it's mass. Wish I'd done that a few months ago; it could've saved me some headaches.

Anyways, I'm seeing entries like this for positioning of capship turrets:

$Subsystem: Turret07, 0.55556, 4.0
$Alt Subsystem Name: Light Turret
$Default PBanks: ( "Laser Turret" )
$Flags: ( "carry no damage" "check hull" "fire on target" "reset when idle" )
$animation: triggered
$type: initial
+relative_angle: 90, 0, 0

What exactly is the deal with relative angle entries? I'm assuming that it has something to do with the weapon's position and firing arc, and that it's the second number (which so far has been 0 or 180) that's key. I'm assuming zero stands for forward and 180 for aft, and that each turret has a 180 degree arc. If that's right, great - if not, what do they stand for?
Breaking down the "+relative_angle:" the first number indicates the default orientation of the turret's gun barrels relative to the side of the hull of the ship it is resting on. I believe 0 would be straight up while 90 would be along the hull. The second number is the default direction the turret will point when idle. For guns on the top of the ship 0=Forward and 180=Aft while for turrets on the bottom it is the reverse 0=Aft and 180=Forward. The last number is not normality set for anything other than 0 as it would result in the turret rolling side to side.
Something else I'd like to do is take a look at a few of the models to at least get a sense of their overall size. I can't discern from the data if that stat is in there or not (if it is, where is it?) so I'm resorting to my old pixel-hunting ways. Can anybody recommend me a good POF viewer that'll let me look at the models? I've got DescentManager MODELVIEW32, but for most of the models it's telling me there are too many surfaces or some crap like that. I'm looking for data on the Spartan, Naktarg, Savannah, Pelileu, Prowler, Dukara, Fralath and Dubav. The other models were either small enough for the program to handle or had an equivalency in Standoff (where I'm having another set of problems at the moment).
To extract files, including the models and textures, from the vp-files, I use VPVIEW.
In order to view the models, I prefer to use the POF Constructor Suite 2.
Got VPVIEW along with MODELVIEW; used it to extract the stats already.

Googling POF Constructor hell, it even comes up as Wing Commander Saga Tool - POF Construction Suite 2. Well now I feel more than a bit stupid...

I do know that most 3d models are scaled to themselves, so is there a handy pixel-to-meters conversion factor involved with any of these? Or any length data for the craft I mentioned at least?
The "Model Info" in the right panel gives the Height=H:, the Width=W:, and the Length=D: in Meters according to the game engine. I have circled it in the image below.